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Things That Are Currently Annoying Me About Fic With Ace Characters
So I got brainweasels about that last post immediately after posting it, yay. All your comments are lovely! But that + RL stress = I may be letting them sit without replies for a bit while I fight off small angry mustelids. :/ Sorry.
But we shall push on regardless! Cranky post is definitely a good thing to push on with in this state of mind, right.
So, I have been sort of following the saga of "fandom discovers asexuality is a thing, yay; fandom writes ace fic, almost none of which I actually like, boo" for years and years and years, basically since fandom discovered asexuality.
Every so often I go "asexuality is so much more visible and well understood now! I will go check the AO3 tag and read the good fic that people are definitely writing" and. Nope. I still end up backbuttoning out of my first three tries. Or just looking at the summary and going 'nope'. And then I go back to only reading ace fic by a very small list of writers who I trust to do it reasonably well.
The interesting thing is that the source of Nope keeps changing. Back in the day, it was usually "What you want there is not an ace character, what you want is non-reciprocity kink. Which I also enjoy! But not when you slather 'pat my back for writing ace fic' all over your non-reciprocity kink."
We've gone through several other trends in nope since then, though. The current one actually took me awhile to figure out why it was giving me the nopes, even though it was pretty simple once I thought about it.
Here's the thing: I keep reading stories with variations on this conversation:
Now, those may be perfectly realistic conversations to have happen (I too have used the "No sorry I'm ace, stop asking" line a few times) because that kind of thing is super-awkward and people don't always say the right thing even if they're trying (sometimes especially) but the thing is, these conversations are never written as "super-awkward, bad situation", they are written as "isn't this person so sensitive and understanding and trustworthy, won't they make a great SO for an ace person" and they are part of stories that are attempting to be pure sugar syrup. And. So much no.
For the record, if I turn you down by mentioning my asexuality, that does not mean "I trust you so much with my deepest darkest secret, I know you can help me figure out how to be happy anyway," it means "this is a really uncomfortable situation and I 100% don't trust you to take a plain no for an answer, so I'm going to make it weird and hope you drop the subject."
For the record, this is how this conversation should go with someone sensitive and trustworthy and cinnamon roll:
You see how Bailey just respects Ash's "No sex" without needing an excuse for why? Do you see how at no point does anyone imply that the only reason to turn down sex is sexual orientation? Nor does anyone imply that all non-ace romantic relationships must include sex immediately? Nor that no allosexual ever gets turned off by a crappy personality, only demi people care about that? Do you see how sexual orientation never actually comes up, because "I don't want to have sex with you" is a statement that can be said by people of many sexual orientations for many reasons, and none of them are obligated to explain why? Imagine!
I recently finished reading a book series where the main character is more-or-less ace. I say more-or-less because she lives in a society where sexual orientation isn't a culturally important thing, it's just whether a particular person is attracted to another particular person, and everyone (at least, everyone who is supposed to be a good person) takes no for an answer and drops it.
And after awhile, everyone just accepts that this character's answer will always be no, and that's ok. And eventually she does get to the point in some relationships where she explains in more detail what her personal relationship with sexuality is, and that's also ok! But it happens quite a long time after it has already been established that she will not be having sex with them, and that they did not need or expect an explanation for why.
That, for the record, is how you should do that when you are trying to write fluffy cinnamon rolls.
Especially since, you know, if you are 100% understanding and trustworthy, it's possible an ace person might be willing to try sex with you! And it will go really well and you will both enjoy yourselves! There are no guarantees, but then, when are there ever guarantees. And it is far less likely if we have already established that you expect sex from anyone who does not have immutable, blunt sexual orientation as an excuse.
Sometimes I actually read a story where the author does that part right, and I don't backbutton for long enough that I get to where non-repulsed-ace-character and Cinnamon Roll do decide to try sex.
At that point, there's at least a 50% chance that I will read a setup for a sex scene that goes, "Because I'm ace, I haven't tried--" or "Even though I'm ace, I like--" or "So I know you're ace, but can we--?"
And, again, I get what the author is trying to do there, and I applaud them for it, but imagine reading a sex scene that was all, "Even though I'm bi, I don't always have threesomes" or "I'm gay, so of course I like blowjobs," or "So I know you're lesbian, but can we see if you like penetration anyway?" or "Hey so I know I said I'm straight but can we try something other than the missionary position?" Over and over again. And in perfect fluffulous sincerity, no arch eyebrow raises about ridiculous assumptions or character having a poorly timed sexual crisis.
That would grate on the nerves, right? I feel like that would grate. It also grates when the character is ace. Presumably if they got this far and they're this good at communicating, Cinnamon Roll already knows that some ace people enjoy some sex acts. It's fine.
Writing sex scenes where characters communicate well about what they like and what they have done before and where they are happy to try new things is wonderful. You don't need to precede every statement of preference with a reaffirmation of sexual orientation. Really. It's fine. Stop. If you feel so awkward about writing an ace-spectrum character having sex that you have to repeat it over and over, you could try writing a story where your ace character doesn't fall in love or have sex. I promise I am not sick of reading those yet.It's not like fandom has figured out how to do those yet either.
But we shall push on regardless! Cranky post is definitely a good thing to push on with in this state of mind, right.
So, I have been sort of following the saga of "fandom discovers asexuality is a thing, yay; fandom writes ace fic, almost none of which I actually like, boo" for years and years and years, basically since fandom discovered asexuality.
Every so often I go "asexuality is so much more visible and well understood now! I will go check the AO3 tag and read the good fic that people are definitely writing" and. Nope. I still end up backbuttoning out of my first three tries. Or just looking at the summary and going 'nope'. And then I go back to only reading ace fic by a very small list of writers who I trust to do it reasonably well.
The interesting thing is that the source of Nope keeps changing. Back in the day, it was usually "What you want there is not an ace character, what you want is non-reciprocity kink. Which I also enjoy! But not when you slather 'pat my back for writing ace fic' all over your non-reciprocity kink."
We've gone through several other trends in nope since then, though. The current one actually took me awhile to figure out why it was giving me the nopes, even though it was pretty simple once I thought about it.
Here's the thing: I keep reading stories with variations on this conversation:
Bailey: Hey, wanna have sex?Or like this:
Ash: Nope, sorry, you're great but I'm ace.
Bailey: Aww, well, if you're ace, we can just be cuddlebuddies.
Bailey: Hey, wanna go out?Or like this:
Ash: Not a no, but you should know that if we do, I won't be having sex with you.
Bailey: That's OK, I already knew you were ace, we can work around that.
Bailey: Hey, wanna have sex?
Ash: I acknowledge you are objectively attractive, but I'm demi, so your crappy personality means that will never happen. Bye.
Bailey: I guess it's time to improve the personality.
Now, those may be perfectly realistic conversations to have happen (I too have used the "No sorry I'm ace, stop asking" line a few times) because that kind of thing is super-awkward and people don't always say the right thing even if they're trying (sometimes especially) but the thing is, these conversations are never written as "super-awkward, bad situation", they are written as "isn't this person so sensitive and understanding and trustworthy, won't they make a great SO for an ace person" and they are part of stories that are attempting to be pure sugar syrup. And. So much no.
For the record, if I turn you down by mentioning my asexuality, that does not mean "I trust you so much with my deepest darkest secret, I know you can help me figure out how to be happy anyway," it means "this is a really uncomfortable situation and I 100% don't trust you to take a plain no for an answer, so I'm going to make it weird and hope you drop the subject."
For the record, this is how this conversation should go with someone sensitive and trustworthy and cinnamon roll:
Ash: I don't want to have sex with you.
Bailey: OK! Then we won't have sex. Do you want to do something else with me? I made cake.
You see how Bailey just respects Ash's "No sex" without needing an excuse for why? Do you see how at no point does anyone imply that the only reason to turn down sex is sexual orientation? Nor does anyone imply that all non-ace romantic relationships must include sex immediately? Nor that no allosexual ever gets turned off by a crappy personality, only demi people care about that? Do you see how sexual orientation never actually comes up, because "I don't want to have sex with you" is a statement that can be said by people of many sexual orientations for many reasons, and none of them are obligated to explain why? Imagine!
I recently finished reading a book series where the main character is more-or-less ace. I say more-or-less because she lives in a society where sexual orientation isn't a culturally important thing, it's just whether a particular person is attracted to another particular person, and everyone (at least, everyone who is supposed to be a good person) takes no for an answer and drops it.
And after awhile, everyone just accepts that this character's answer will always be no, and that's ok. And eventually she does get to the point in some relationships where she explains in more detail what her personal relationship with sexuality is, and that's also ok! But it happens quite a long time after it has already been established that she will not be having sex with them, and that they did not need or expect an explanation for why.
That, for the record, is how you should do that when you are trying to write fluffy cinnamon rolls.
Especially since, you know, if you are 100% understanding and trustworthy, it's possible an ace person might be willing to try sex with you! And it will go really well and you will both enjoy yourselves! There are no guarantees, but then, when are there ever guarantees. And it is far less likely if we have already established that you expect sex from anyone who does not have immutable, blunt sexual orientation as an excuse.
Sometimes I actually read a story where the author does that part right, and I don't backbutton for long enough that I get to where non-repulsed-ace-character and Cinnamon Roll do decide to try sex.
At that point, there's at least a 50% chance that I will read a setup for a sex scene that goes, "Because I'm ace, I haven't tried--" or "Even though I'm ace, I like--" or "So I know you're ace, but can we--?"
And, again, I get what the author is trying to do there, and I applaud them for it, but imagine reading a sex scene that was all, "Even though I'm bi, I don't always have threesomes" or "I'm gay, so of course I like blowjobs," or "So I know you're lesbian, but can we see if you like penetration anyway?" or "Hey so I know I said I'm straight but can we try something other than the missionary position?" Over and over again. And in perfect fluffulous sincerity, no arch eyebrow raises about ridiculous assumptions or character having a poorly timed sexual crisis.
That would grate on the nerves, right? I feel like that would grate. It also grates when the character is ace. Presumably if they got this far and they're this good at communicating, Cinnamon Roll already knows that some ace people enjoy some sex acts. It's fine.
Writing sex scenes where characters communicate well about what they like and what they have done before and where they are happy to try new things is wonderful. You don't need to precede every statement of preference with a reaffirmation of sexual orientation. Really. It's fine. Stop. If you feel so awkward about writing an ace-spectrum character having sex that you have to repeat it over and over, you could try writing a story where your ace character doesn't fall in love or have sex. I promise I am not sick of reading those yet.
no subject
*nod* That makes sense. And I definitely get. I just have a knee-jerk wariness because I so often HAVE seen stuff turn to "X annoys me because blah so anything that looks like X is WRONG and this other way is the only way" so I guess I read "and this is how to signal that x is Perfect Cinnamon Roll" as "if it goes any way other than this, exactly, including if Ash feels any need to clarify anything*, it either means Bailey is actually evil or is the sign of Our Fucked Up Consent Culture".
Rather than as "it would be really damn nice if stuff more like this showed up more often, I am bored of this other narrative, please and thank you."
Which is me and my writing-related-twitchiness (ask me about writing sexual violence sometimes and how much I HATE most discussions of it -.-). And this is me explaining my moment of "errrr . . . " /end over explain.
I mean, I tend to think "if what you want to write is shippiness, especially if you personally are not ace, really rethink whether having an ace character is actually a good idea", and/or "if you want to write an ace character, reeeeally think about whether or not shippiness is required at all" (not, you know, "never do it", but also this is not your Open Minded Bingo Card, you do not NEED to write your ship with one of them as ace in order to be a good person/ally, if you want to write sexual-focused shippiness maybe just write both of them as sexual, just as a thought), buuuut yeah.
*because I gotta admit, if someone asked me to date them and I wasn't turning them down flat, I would actually always, always clarify "I find you emotionally and possibly romantically interesting but physical stuff is not going to happen", because it's not . . . actually unreasonable for a person to take "yes I will go on a date" as at least a sign that there is a possibility that physical stuff will happen because mostly that is what it means, and if the person then goes "actually no" without a note of "not yet" or whatever it means the proto-relationship is a loss?
no subject
And yeah, there is definitely a great deal of possibility in between "Perfect Cinnamon Roll" and "Evil". (...fucked up consent culture will be there pretty much regardless, I am afraid, one way or another. because, fish, water, unfortunately people, you know. I just prefer to avoid *unexamined* fucked up consent culture in my escapist reading, these days.)
I do agree that there are times when you need to clarify in advance that sex is not on the table. But "I'm asexual" is not... the best way to do that? Because "I am asexual" and "I am not interested in sex as part of this relationship" are not equivalent? There's plenty of allo people who might want a non-sexual romantic relationship for some reason.
And I'm aro/ace but vaguely interested in the possibility of sex sometime, so if I ever do intentionally* date someone it'll probably be because I am considering sex with them, and the "I'm ace" explanation will be more like "look, I don't do romance, I'm here for the sex, but if we get that far I might be weird about it." And I think a fair number of ace people are also there.
...but also. A lot of people are VERY FIRM that "agreeing to date someone" does not mean "being obligated to immediately tell them intimate details about your sexual circumstances". Very few people in our circles, I think, would say that it's unreasonable to not mention that you're bi, or you're trans, or you have an std, or you have very specific kinks, or you're a trauma survivor with triggers around penetration, or you have vulvodynia, or you're poly, or whatever, before agreeing to date, you know? Because a date is both of you evaluating the other as a partner, not any kind of obligation on one person's part. And yet most of those same people would think it was really wrong for an ace person to not go into detail about their feelings on sex at that same point.
Which is a contradiction that I think is super weird.
I mean, I would make sure and say it first too, but that's mostly because if someone's going to react really badly to that I'd rather get it over with while it's still reasonably easy to extract myself, not out of obligation to them.
And if it's a relationship that's getting serious, obviously, the mutual obligations are different. There's definitely a point at which you need to talk about that stuff before you get any deeper. And a lot of fanfic does assume "dating" = super-serious long-term relationship This Is The One confess everything". And what do I know from dating, anyway.
But either way, just "I'm asexual" is not going to be telling your partner what they need to know, not if they're the sort of person who would be willing to listen to the rest of it, anyway. And just "I'm asexual" is apparently all you need to know, according to a lot of fanfic.
....I have pretty much given up on the "if what you want to write is shippiness, especially if you personally are not ace, really rethink whether having an ace character is actually a good idea", and/or "if you want to write an ace character, reeeeally think about whether or not shippiness is required at all" idea, it will never gain traction. And if it did the fic would be gen so nobody would read it anyway. :P
*let's not even get into why I need that qualifier. *sigh*