![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
D:
The reason I haven't posted on DW for awhile is that I, basically, only have the time, energy and emotional stamina to make one substantial post/comment a day, so when I'm doing a lot of posting elsewhere, my personal journal tends to go quiet.
And for the past two weeks, instead of larking around DW talking meta and coming up with creative excuses for why meta is all I do, I've actually been *writing* and *posting* fic on a fairly steady basis with reasonable output - I've written and posted something like 12,000 words, which is more than I usually manage in a year, and I'm so astonished at this fact that I've just kind of been stepping back and trying not to do anything to jinx it.
...unfortunately it's all for the British Politics RPS kink meme, and it's all anon, so you lot don't get any benefit out of it. (Unless you're also on that meme, in which case, secret handshake!)
I'm staying anon about which of those are mine not because I'm unwilling to admit to writing politics RPS - first of all, this isn't my first go-round, and second of all, I had a birthday party right at the height of the coalition negotiations, so pretty much all my RL friends have probably figure it out anyway. But I really do think anon memes work better when most of the people on them stay anon, so, anon I am staying. (I will note that a disproportionate number of the unclaimed fills with SamCam in them are my fault, but you probably could have guessed that.)
So. British Politics RPF. What the heck, self? And as a consequence, while there are as usual wonderful and insightful meta discussions going on around here, all I really want to say is "In this RPS fandom they really do send secret messages through color-coded accessories!" and "even Michael-Freaking-Feldman ships it!while being even more couple-y than usual with Jim Packard" and "I like the Speaker!" (Warning:streaming rm audio at the second link, youtube video at the third. )
The problem with this fandom is that reality keeps outdoing the fic. I mean, the fill I was hoping to finish tonight had a line in it that I was debating taking out, because I kept thinking "The Prime Minister would never actually say anything *that slashy* on television", and then -- he did. Which is the nice sort of being outdone by canon. But the reason I'm writing a journal post instead of that fic is that we've had the bad sort of canon, too. This story centers around a character publically coming out, and tonight, one of the more likable people we're writing about just got forcibly outed in a fairly awful way. :/
And it's one thing to glee over a hypocritical homophobe being forced out, it's another thing entirely when it's someone who's repeatedly turned down opportunities for real power in order to stay true to pro-glbt principles.
(And can I just pause the rambling about RPF here to say: I am completely incapable of taking the MPs' expenses scandal seriously. Do you know how much I wish my politicians were just spending public money to split the mortgage with their boyfriend or get the moat cleaned, instead of, oh, accepting free housing at a Dominionist Christian brainwashing center that requires them to go to "counseling" sessions in which they're taught that everything they do is moral because they've been chosen by God for power? SO MUCH I WISH.)
Anyway. Now I don't think I can finish that story until the fallout about the RL outing has finished falling out. First because it'll change what happens in the story, but also because I feel weird about writing it now, writing what's essentially wish-fulfillment idcrack about the way I *wish* politicians would talk about their sexuality, when these same people are in RL dealing with the very real and very hard and painful consequences of the way people do talk about and deal with sexuality in politics and public life.
I have conflicted feelings about RPS anyway - I mean, clearly I don't have sufficiently conflicted feelings to not read and write the stuff - but I've gone from, when I first got in to fandom, saying essentially "I find it boring, but ya'll have fun" to where I am now, where something like 2/3 of the fandoms I'm currently enthusing about are essentially RPS.
What that's come down to is that I find actors and people in rock bands generally so uninteresting they actually turn me off. But then I found RPS that wasn't about actors or people in rock bands, and, well, Bob's your uncle. It doesn't help that, remember that list of 101 fic kinks I posted awhile back? Something like 20 of them show up over and over in RPF fandoms just by the nature of RPF.
There's basically, I have decided, four factors in deciding whether I'm doing a particular bit of RPF:
And for the past two weeks, instead of larking around DW talking meta and coming up with creative excuses for why meta is all I do, I've actually been *writing* and *posting* fic on a fairly steady basis with reasonable output - I've written and posted something like 12,000 words, which is more than I usually manage in a year, and I'm so astonished at this fact that I've just kind of been stepping back and trying not to do anything to jinx it.
...unfortunately it's all for the British Politics RPS kink meme, and it's all anon, so you lot don't get any benefit out of it. (Unless you're also on that meme, in which case, secret handshake!)
I'm staying anon about which of those are mine not because I'm unwilling to admit to writing politics RPS - first of all, this isn't my first go-round, and second of all, I had a birthday party right at the height of the coalition negotiations, so pretty much all my RL friends have probably figure it out anyway. But I really do think anon memes work better when most of the people on them stay anon, so, anon I am staying. (I will note that a disproportionate number of the unclaimed fills with SamCam in them are my fault, but you probably could have guessed that.)
So. British Politics RPF. What the heck, self? And as a consequence, while there are as usual wonderful and insightful meta discussions going on around here, all I really want to say is "In this RPS fandom they really do send secret messages through color-coded accessories!" and "even Michael-Freaking-Feldman ships it!
The problem with this fandom is that reality keeps outdoing the fic. I mean, the fill I was hoping to finish tonight had a line in it that I was debating taking out, because I kept thinking "The Prime Minister would never actually say anything *that slashy* on television", and then -- he did. Which is the nice sort of being outdone by canon. But the reason I'm writing a journal post instead of that fic is that we've had the bad sort of canon, too. This story centers around a character publically coming out, and tonight, one of the more likable people we're writing about just got forcibly outed in a fairly awful way. :/
And it's one thing to glee over a hypocritical homophobe being forced out, it's another thing entirely when it's someone who's repeatedly turned down opportunities for real power in order to stay true to pro-glbt principles.
(And can I just pause the rambling about RPF here to say: I am completely incapable of taking the MPs' expenses scandal seriously. Do you know how much I wish my politicians were just spending public money to split the mortgage with their boyfriend or get the moat cleaned, instead of, oh, accepting free housing at a Dominionist Christian brainwashing center that requires them to go to "counseling" sessions in which they're taught that everything they do is moral because they've been chosen by God for power? SO MUCH I WISH.)
Anyway. Now I don't think I can finish that story until the fallout about the RL outing has finished falling out. First because it'll change what happens in the story, but also because I feel weird about writing it now, writing what's essentially wish-fulfillment idcrack about the way I *wish* politicians would talk about their sexuality, when these same people are in RL dealing with the very real and very hard and painful consequences of the way people do talk about and deal with sexuality in politics and public life.
I have conflicted feelings about RPS anyway - I mean, clearly I don't have sufficiently conflicted feelings to not read and write the stuff - but I've gone from, when I first got in to fandom, saying essentially "I find it boring, but ya'll have fun" to where I am now, where something like 2/3 of the fandoms I'm currently enthusing about are essentially RPS.
What that's come down to is that I find actors and people in rock bands generally so uninteresting they actually turn me off. But then I found RPS that wasn't about actors or people in rock bands, and, well, Bob's your uncle. It doesn't help that, remember that list of 101 fic kinks I posted awhile back? Something like 20 of them show up over and over in RPF fandoms just by the nature of RPF.
There's basically, I have decided, four factors in deciding whether I'm doing a particular bit of RPF:
- First, do I find the setup and characters interesting in their own right? The thing about reality-based fandoms is that you can get away with things that are *way* more unlikely than you could get away with in fiction. As British Politics fandom is currently proving. But it's not just that - tell me that somebody pitching a TV drama series could have gotten away with a Rachel Maddow Show. Or a President Obama. Or a Robert Downey, Jr. Or, hell, even a Richard Hammond. (This is, in fact, why I often have very little interest in non-SF drama in general, too: if I want to read about interesting people doing interesting things in science or law enforcement or politics or family-raising or whatever, there's far more interesting [and generally more diversely cast] stuff going on in RL that I can turn to.) But if your RPF fandom is based on some people who are just, oh, handsome and moderately talented at what they do and generally not assholes in public, I really could care less.
- Second, do I feel like they deserve it? Basically, I don't feel comfortable writing RPF about people unless they fall in to one of a few categories: A) If the power and/or money differential between them and me is so unimaginably vast that nothing I do could possibly bring them anywhere near my own power level (like, say, the head of state of any G20 nation or CEO of any supercorporation) I really couldn't give a hoot about their right to privacy and I'll write all the porn I want. B) If they've made a career out of turning their public persona into a saleable story - if they've ever been on a reality TV show, or sold a tell-all biography, or voluntarily talked about their sex lives in a paid TV appearance, or done a deliberately sexualized photoshoot in character as themselves - well, if they think it's okay to turn their lives into a saleable story, I think it's okay to write fanfic about the parts of their lives that they've sold (this is where the British Comedy panelists come in, among other people) and C) if they're evil, and have a public platform that they use for evil purposes, I am okay with using whatever little platform I have to dilute the power of that evil, even if my little platform is slashfic (There is an issue here with the ways porn gets weaponized - see SurveyFail - but that's an issue about how the fic itself is written, and not about the RPS factor, I think.) (Also D) if they explicitly dare their fans to do it, but that one's pretty obvious.)
- Connected with 2, I don't write RPS that I would be uncomfortable about the people in question finding. This especially comes into play with people in category B, where there's some people I am willing to write tentacle porn about with nary a qualm (if, say, they're the sort of people who have made a career out of wanking on-air and making out with hand puppets) but there are some people I will happily write up to only gen, or only up to a certain rating, or will only write explicit fic if it's very clearly crack or AU, because they don't share the really intimate parts of themselves in public.
The thing is, I just kind of assume that everybody writing RPS has similar internal guidelines of some kind, and don't publish things that they feel are violating the people they're writing about. So I will quite happily *read* porny stories about people I don't feel okay *writing* porny stories about, because if the author's okay with it, I'll trust their judgement for the duration of the story. And every so often a small RPS fandom will have a paroxysm about the possiblity of their idols noticing them and it will be pointed out to me that a lot of people *do* post porn that they think is a violation and I will feel weird about it for awhile. - And finally, I can't get into an RPF pairing unless I'm at least a little bit tinhatty about it. Not all the way tinhatty, but the people who insist that of *course* the people they're writing about aren't *actually* interested in each other, or aren't *actually* gay, worry me a little. Do I believe Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow are having an affair? Of course not. Do I believe Keith is in love with her, and she's glad she has zero attraction to men, because otherwise they would have flamed and burned out by now? --yes. Do I believe David Cameron and Nick Clegg were making like bunnies during the coalition negotiations? No, obviously. Do I believe they're both at least little bit bi, and are aware of, and taking advantage of, UST between them? --maybe. Do I believe Charlie Brooker and David Mitchell are dating? Nope. Do I believe Charlie secretly gets himself off thinking about David, and David occasionally finds himself wondering if it's possible? --Uh-huh. Do I think the Top Gear three are crawling in and out of each others' tents? Not at all. Do I think there's more than just a joke in it when James offhandedly says "Oh, has Jeremy finally come out?" --
This is where RL events can make things really tangled. I kind of envy the people who can say "They're just fiction with a few similar names and traits, I don't care what's happening to them in RL or what they do" because, if I care enough to write fic about them, I *do* care what's happening to them in RL. Because when something like what's happened in the British government tonight happens, it hurts, and it completely derails me from the fun side of fannishness. Maybe especially something like what happened here, where if it was a fic, I would have really, really liked the fic, but instead I just kind of want to cry. And it makes me wonder what business I would have had liking it if it were fic.
So. Anyway. That is why I am writing meta tonight instead of fic. Perhaps tomorrow I will spend my post-writing energy actually writing one of the other DW posts I am backlogged on doing! Or put in some real work on prepping the con-txt panels I'm modding! Or go take refuge on that other anon kink meme I've been haunting and write another Charlie/David kissing on panel shows fill (because there can never be too many of those!)
...or perhaps I will spend the day just obsessively following the David Laws coverage and trying not to cry. Or write fic where he is a tiny cheerful dragon teaching Boris how to fly. :)
(I feel like I should have something to say about this story other than D: and putting it in a fannish context, but my Thoughts on the ethical complications of being in a politics fandom for a country I am not in or from is another post at least as long as this one was.)
no subject
* Are you alternating between "RPF" and "RPS" accidentally or on purpose? Because I get confused with things like, "I am okay with using whatever little platform I have to dilute the power of that evil, even if my little platform is slashfic." Are you saying that slash is more of a platform for you than het, or than gen, or are you actually just making a point about fic being your platform, in which case the slash is incidental?
* The thing about reality-based fandoms is that you can get away with things that are *way* more unlikely than you could get away with in fiction.
I agree with this so much. Just saying.
* I don't write RPS that I would be uncomfortable about the people in question finding.
I'd say that I don't *post* fic (RPF or RPS) that I would be uncomfortable with the people in question finding. Or at least I don't post it where they could find it. My own position is that what I write privately is my own business, though I suppose it makes sense to refrain from writing such stories as well. If it's not prying, do you ever find yourself telling yourself stories in your head that you would never write down? Because I do have a line there as well.
* And finally, I can't get into an RPF pairing unless I'm at least a little bit tinhatty about it. Not all the way tinhatty, but the people who insist that of *course* the people they're writing about aren't *actually* interested in each other, or aren't *actually* gay, worry me a little.
I think we have different definitions of "tinhatty." I mean, if you're correct than surely you're the one who's fully in touch with reality and the "this is all fiction" folk are the ones who are wrong?
As you know I'm all about the real life. I do agree that it's a different and more uncomfortable matter when things are unfolding right in front of your eyes. If something like this current scandal had happened fifty years ago, I feel certain that I would be writing about it without a qualm. And would not even have had qualms about lacking qualms, if you see what I mean. People can tell me that's wrong, but I do think that sort of perspective makes things very different.
Finally I do hope you feel better and are able to go back to the things about the fandom that you enjoy.
no subject
I'm alternating RPF and RPS partly at random and partly thoughtfully? In that I was trying to do it thoughtfully but I think I lost track of things partway through the post and I should probably go back and edit to make it a bit more thoughtful. Basically, when I am actually thinking about it, I use RPS when I'm meaning to refer specifically to reality fanfic communities that are slash-, queer-, and porn-welcoming, and RPF when I mean real-people-based stories in general without that added layer? Because there is a difference, especially in terms of people's reactions to the idea. Including mine. But that's a whole mess of meta and unpacking on its own. But, yes, when I say "even if my little platform is slashfic" I meant to imply specifically writing queer porn as a way of sending a message, as opposed to writing any kind of fiction. (Which may be a silly distinction to make; is queer porn really qualititatively different platform-wise? When the London Times is using it? Or maybe *especially* when the Times is using it...)
And your second question, I think, doesn't really apply to me personally because I don't write anything I'm not intending to post - such a small fraction of the stories I tell myself ever make it to text that I never spend my limited writing capital on something I don't intend to share. (And I'm one of those people who can carry a lot of very detailed story in my head, so I don't really get any extra benefit - for myself - out of writing something as opposed to just staring at walls daydreaming about it.)
The second part of that question - wow, at first I thought it was going to be a simple answer ('people are free to do whatever they want in the privacy of their own minds') but the more I think about it the more complicated my answer gets. And the part about the line with explicit sex is all bound up with "thoughts on asexuality and sexual fantasies" rather than "thoughts on RPS", and I've sat here trying to figure out how to talik about that for five minutes and haven't even figured out how to start. But. Hmmm. There is a line for me with blatantly erotic stories where I squick myself, but it applies equally to fictional people, celebrities, and people I know, and trying to think about it in ethical terms gets really bound up with my deep-seated issues around my own sexuality that long predate my fandom involvement. So. Kind of?
There are stories I tell myself in my head because I am interested in them but I don't think anyone else would be interested enough to be worth the effort of writing, or that I don't think I could ever, ever do justice to in writing, or that I don't think I have the skill write in a way that isn't harmful on a privilege axis. Sometimes with that last category, I do stop myself from thinking them, too; and sometimes I make an executive decision to explore and do badly because I won't learn otherwise, and at least in my head I'm harming no-one else.
And specifically regarding RPF - there are story ideas I have where exploring them to any real extent would require doing research into people's private lives on a level I'm not comfortable with, and even when I'm telling stories only to myself I do the research, so yes, those get shelved.
Sometimes. One thing about taking part in anon fic memes, and also to some extent open prompt-submission fests like lgbtfest, is that I'll take those story ideas that interest me, but I'm not comfortable even writing in my head, and throw them out as prompts in hope that they'll find someone who *is* comfortable. That's one of the things I really like about anon memes, that sometimes somebody does take up this idea that I'm fascinated by but also scared of, and does amazing things with it that I could never do. And sometimes I post the prompt, and a bunch of anons chime in saying how much they like it, and that convinces me that it isn't an evil horrible thing to make a story about, and I fill it myself, end up really proud of the result.
The bad side of that, of course, is that prompts can end up getting posted and written that really never should have been. And this also hits the bit in my post when I run up against people who write and post fic apparently *despite* thinking that it's ethically wrong - which bothers me a lot, especially in an anon prompt situation, because I start to wonder if, rather than offering up an idea to someone who has figured out how to do it ethically, I am instead just getting someone else to do my dirty work for me where I don't have to know about it.
...anyway.
I'm a bit confused about your confusion about "tinhatty"? My knowledge of the term is that tinhats by *definition* believe that they're right and everybody else is wrong; but basically been adopted as a mildly self-deprecating, unthreatening way of saying that you believe fandom knows truths that aren't part of the official public record. So non-tinhat people are generally very quick to say that fans don't actually believe anything that isn't in the public record, and tinhats are willing to say, no, I would not be at all surprised if it turned out the fandom was right all along.
So when I say I have to be at least a little bit tinhatty, I mean that unless I consistently read sexual tension in a pairing's public interaction, I'm generally not interested in fic about them. And that I'm willing to publically admit that. :D (I don't think there's anything wrong with writing for pairings you don't think have any basis whatsoever in reality, or writing slash about people you think are 100% straight in RL, I'm just not generally interested in doing it. And I find the split between those two interpretations in some RPS communities ... worrying.)
Anyway the good thing about being a fannish butterfly is that I can just flit off to a different fandom until I feel like funtimes this one again! I'm just sad that I wont't be finishing that WIP anytime soon. Maybe I'll slide back to US politics - there's actually exciting, not-entirely-depressing stuff happening with Congress right now, I hear.
no subject
Oh, that's really interesting and completely different from my own usage. My general feeling about the term "RPS" is that it's more old-school and tends to be used by old school slashers, the kind who do mainly write about straight people and think about slash as its own distinct genre. As I generally write about a mix of canonical sexual orientations, I call everything I do "RPF." So I think whenever I see "RPS" now, it pings me a bit and I start wondering what the author is meaning to say with the usage.
And your second question, I think, doesn't really apply to me personally because I don't write anything I'm not intending to post - such a small fraction of the stories I tell myself ever make it to text that I never spend my limited writing capital on something I don't intend to share.
Wow. I have so many unfinished stories that I meant to share, and so many little vignettes that I wrote just for me, and so many posted stories that I meant to write just for me but turned out to be unexpectedly presentable. So my own line-drawing is for that reason obviously a far different process than yours is.
That's one of the things I really like about anon memes, that sometimes somebody does take up this idea that I'm fascinated by but also scared of, and does amazing things with it that I could never do. And sometimes I post the prompt, and a bunch of anons chime in saying how much they like it, and that convinces me that it isn't an evil horrible thing to make a story about, and I fill it myself, end up really proud of the result.
Some might call this a positive outcome of the fanfic community--encourages you as a writer, stretches you to try things you might not otherwise have considered, etc etc--but with RPF I can see the additional fear of being tempted to cross lines that you didn't want to cross. I've never had this happen with an anon meme, because I've never been lucky (or unlucky) enough to really be in phase enough with the fannish zeitgeist to get involved in one, but I've had a similar experience doing Beatles RPF roleplaying. Fun and unsettling at once.
I'm a bit confused about your confusion about "tinhatty"? My knowledge of the term is that tinhats by *definition* believe that they're right and everybody else is wrong; but basically been adopted as a mildly self-deprecating, unthreatening way of saying that you believe fandom knows truths that aren't part of the official public record.
Fun with definitions! My own understanding of the term was that the term "tinhat" implies that the person is wrong and deluding themselves, but then I haven't been in any fandoms where it's frequently used. Perhaps this is because in Beatles slash fandom, the tinhats are in the majority!
no subject
...and I have a ton of unfinished stories that will probably never see the light, but at the time of writing, I intended to post them (and wouldn't be more than mildly chagrined about writing quality if they did end up in public.)
And, yeah, the thing with line-crossing and anon memes isn't just limited to RPF; I mean, in the good way, it's a kink-positive thing that helps people be more comfortable with what they like. But then you get the recurring quagmires around people requesting a Nazi/Jew AU or whatever. (There was a request on the British Politics RPF meme, actually, that could have boiled down to "Spanish lady is hot-tempered and throws dishes at her timid husband!" which made me go /: ): D: - they were going for a H/C kink, but that could have gone so wrong - but before I got the courage to speak up somebody filled it - really excellently - in a way that hit the H/C but not the stereotype, so yay there.)
I think "tinhat" originally meant what you think it means! But it very quickly got reclaimed - or at least semi-reclaimed. So you can still use "tinhat" to mean deluded*, or use it as a warning to an overexcited community to mean "take a step back and a deep breath before mass hysteria hits" but these days, it's just as likely to be used in a self-deprecatory or outright reclaiming way - "Okay, so I'm one of 'those' people, but I'm still capable of keeping things in perspective. *adjusts tinhat*"
I think it's a bit different in dead-people fandoms because people aren't scared about overinvested fans actually trying to get close to their idols.
*and I strongly suspect some of the original notorious tinhats actually were diagnosably psychologically disordered, which makes me hesitant to join in the slur-throwing at them. :/
no subject
no subject
I kind of suspect several of my dwircle are over there, actually. :D We are not alone!
no subject
And it makes me wonder what business I would have had liking it if it were fic.
Because, if it were a fic, no one would have actually been hurt.
no subject
is totally not getting slightly tinhatty about you/Keith:POh, give me the easy answers, why don't you!
...no, you're right, putting the tinhat down and remembering how to separate fictional pain from real pain probably is the answer. It's still giving me light collywobbles though somehow. I keep thinking about how if a story like this had come out in a way that *wasn't* deeply hurtful - like, say, when Adam Lambert came out - fandom (and I) would have completely embraced it in a much more fannish way. And of course the difference there is real people being hurt. And yet. I can't help thinking in a completely reptile-brain way that the happy fannish things, and the wallowing in fictional pain, are - at risk of - devaluing the real pain? I don't know, we're back to me continuing to be overly conflicted about rpf. I guess this has just been a sudden sharp reminder that bad things happen to real celebrities too.
no subject
Point 3 is a large part of why I became okay with writing RPF, because I started in a fandom where the subjects were aware of (and okay with) the fanfic about them, and take advantage of it. I also think there are sort of two major groups of RPF fanfic, the kind where there is some minor-tinhatty-UST and the kind that's more of a "What if."
Thoughts on the ethical complications of being in a politics fandom for a country I am not in or from
Heh, I know those thoughts! They plague me D: so I mostly ignore them. I was also in American Political RPF fandom around the time Obama was elected, and it's weird that now I'm the Foreigner.
no subject
And yes, thoughts. I just keep in mind that I wouldn't've cared about British people writing Obama slash (or John/John slash! My first politics OTP was six years ago, OMG I'm old), and people on the meme don't seem to mind us Americans there, and that the US and Britain aren't that much different in terms of national privilege.
There's a reason I've avoided writing much about actual policy, though. :D
no subject
Oh, I don't think people mind us being there! But I feel very conscious of not understanding all the nuances of the British politicians and media folks, so I stay mostly quiet. Although I rather feel like hanging out on that meme has increased my understanding of British politics more than any *actual* research would have ever done :P
no subject
Or go take refuge on that other anon kink meme I've been haunting and write another Charlie/David kissing on panel shows fill (because there can never be too many of those!)
I second this.
Srly though I've never been sucked in so quickly into a tiny RPS fandom before but... I spend all my time now F5ing the 'anonymeme-that-must-not-be-named' hoping for more stuff. I've even wrote fic and I don't write!
no subject
He opposes the war in Iraq! He supports the idea of a national health service! He approves of civil partnerships! He isn't a global warming denier! He's willing to describe himself as a "liberal"! OMG, I love his politics.
...anyway. Also, I imprinted on Colonial America-era historical novels, where "her secret Tory lover" was every bit as much a manly romantic archetype as her Highland laird or her billionaire sheikh or her mysterious highwayman. So I should probably just come out and admit that I do in fact apparently have a kink for Tories. :D (I will not talk about my thing for David Horton, I will not talk about my thing for David Horton...)
OMG, I fall *into* tiny fandoms like this with some regularity, but I do not actually *write* for them! Until now. What's happened to us?