you can't do a pairing smush for them because their smushname is... complicated.

[melannen]

So I've gotten up to X-Factor/New Mutants in X-Plain the X-Men, which I am listening to obsessively to avoid listening to my internal monologue, and I now have a new OTP that there is almost no fanfic for and that has been dead (well, mostly dead) for decades, and that I will never know canon well enough to write myself.

Thanks, folks, helpful.

(actual canon first time for Doug Ramsey and Warlock:


)

Also there is no way I will have anything/everything ready in time for con.txt next weekend, but that's pretty standard, so whatever. Maybe I can at least lobby for a DIY X-men/deadpool panel, since that seems to be where I still am these days.

Comments

[stardreamer]

I still remember how pissed off I was when they offed Cypher. Especially since I've never been able to shake the suspicion that it was because he was interested in Psylocke (an older woman) and she in him. But that wouldn't keep me from being able to enjoy fic about Cypher/Warlock. And yeah, that scene is... well.

[sheliak]

I never really got why Cypher/Psylocke bothered people so much more than Sam/Lila--the age gap there was at least as big and they actually got together instead of just mutually crushing.

[melannen]

I think for me, part of it is that Sam reads as significantly more mature than Doug - it's tricky to tell ages in Marvel, but he's got to be at least 17/18 by that point, maybe more, and had also spent a lot of time working for a living as a presumed adult before he joined up, where Doug's still around 15 and very much a schoolkid when Betsey shows up. Yearwise it's not a huge difference, but it feels like a pretty big difference in maturity.

Also that somehow Lila slots into my head with the Great Cosmic Forces (like Warlock) where human age doesn't apply, even though I know that technically that's not true. :P

But honestly between Kitty/Piotr, Sam/Lila and Cypher/Psylocke it's hard to find a pairing that *doesn't* have a bit of an ick age difference going on, and it's becoming a cumulative ick as much as anything, because it feels like that's all we get. All the McCaffrey references suddenly make sense - Claremont clearly was reading a lot of the FT&T books for ideas (although this run predates Sascha/Tirla by just a little bit, so maybe the influence was going the other way too, I kept seeing Piotr/Kitty as Sascha/Tirla and then having to fast forward a little.)

[sheliak]

Dani flirting with Thunderbird (Warpath one, not dead one) was age-appropriate, I think? That's about all I have, though.

(I want to say that Sam is supposedly 16 when New Mutants starts, but he does come across as older.)

[melannen]

I found a wiki reference that he was sixteen when his powers activated, and then he was working for the hellfire club, and then on the team awhile before Doug joined, whereas Doug is supposed to be the same age as kitty, who is explicitly still fifteen around when Excalibur starts. But really, marvel time, so it could be anything.

[sheliak]

But really, marvel time, so it could be anything.

This is so. I'm pretty sure that Kitty turned fifteen twice, and there are other characters who I am pretty sure haven't aged since they were introduced.

[melannen]

Given the epic number of teen-adult pairings in New Mutants and adjacent around then, it seems unlikely that would be why. But a lot of people seem to still be annoyed about it! He does seem like a character with a lot of potential that was wasted.

[hannah]

Yes, and don't forget the first time they melded into a single being.

[stardreamer]

Yes, that was a fabulous team-up! Warlock provided the physical strength that Cypher (whose powers are intellectual rather than physical) lacked; Cypher provided the judgment that Warlock (being an alien unfamiliar with human culture) lacked. The whole was much greater than the sum of its parts.

[melannen]

The podcasters have been talking a lot about how the emphasis on Cypher's lack of physical powers never really made sense, and I kind of agree (especially since I came into comics with Cass Cain, whose ability to read body language in detail made her a total badass, although I think they may have finally picked that up in one of Cypher's resurrections. Also because basically none of the New Mutants except Amara really have powers that make more sense for combat at this point anyway.)

The whole was greater than the sum because they loved each other a whole lot. :)

[rachelmanija]

Right, you'd have to differentiate between Douglock the person and Douglock the pairing. They definitely had a lot going on.

[melannen]

Douglock the pairing, Douglock the merged entity, Douglock the resurrected version of Warlock with all Doug's memories, and... I feel like I'm missing at least one.

[umadoshi]

Aww, old-school New Mutants! *nostalgia*

[melannen]

Comics make me feel old; there's stuff that came out when I was in college and has been on my to-read list that long that they're citing as old classics. D:

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

I feel that way in 'Antique Malls', even allowing for Collectable FleaMarket Mall being an unwieldy sign.