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I am technically on vacation (read: helping sister move) and super-behind on everything computer, but we did go see ca:cw finally yesterday.

That movie was the best attempt I have ever seen at translating the feeling of reading a major superhero comics event book to the big screen. I am not sure if that is a compliment or not but if that's what they wee trying to do they did it perfectly.

so I was sort of semi_avoiding spoilers, but still managed to see lots of people arguing about Sharon kissing Steve, and how that was just such a clear "reward the dude hero with hot chick" moment, but I didn't get that at all? Like that was really obviously Sharon going "well I've just torpedoed my entire life in the service of What Would Aunt Peggy Do, so I'm at least going to Damn well kiss Steve Rogers while I'm at it." That was definitely Sharon's reward, not Steve's. Sister agrees. I am okay with Sharon getting that as her reward, and she can deal with her grief by kissing as many hot dudes as she wants. (Sharon in general got to do way more than tumblr led me to expect and her arc was no less coherent than anybody else's.)

Speaking of poorly-done-by female characters though, how do you decide to make General Ross a major antagonist and then continue to ignore the existence of Betty? If Ross is pulling that kind of nonsense Betty should have been right in there fucking shit up.

None of my wip fanfic is any more jossed than it was before so there's that. (Does anyone else get the experience of watching new canon and going "wow that was a super-cool reference back to that one scene. In that fanfic nobody but me has ever read.")

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I want to read the fic where Betty is all up in there fucking shit up.

I have wanted to know where Betty is since Avengers Assemble :(

(Because if you are worried about the Hulk to the extent of building a fancy prison cell on your flying fortress, why do you not bring on board the one person who has ever got the Hulk to calm the shit down? And not even a "sent to Tromsø" reference. At the time I saw AA, the only Phase 1 film I'd seen - I was barely aware of Phase 1 as a concept - was Incredible Hulk, because Hulk was one of my childhood heroes. So I'm like who the fuck is Jane, and where is Betty?.)

I would also read a fic about Sharon dealing with her grief by kissing many hot people.

Yepppp. And if they just decided to ignore all of the hulk movie, okay, but if you bring back Ross (and even have him make snide comments about bruce) and ignore Betty entirely, that is different.

Sharon should kiss many hot people!

Plus Bruce referred to the Hulk movie in Avengers, the "I kind of broke Harlem" comment.

I WANT BETTY!

There's also that whole short film bit about Tony screwing Ross over in protection of his science bro, so the whole resurgence of Ross is weird.

AMEN YES TO THIS.

No Maria Hill, either, she said glumly

And no Nick-fucking-Fury :(

At least he's supposed to be in hiding. Maria's on Tony's damn staff (and was central to the comics plot, but apparently that argument only applies when they want to include Spider-Man).

But hey, Ant-Man! Just what we want and need!

That movie was the best attempt I have ever seen at translating the feeling of reading a major superhero comics event book to the big screen. I am not sure if that is a compliment or not but if that's what they wee trying to do they did it perfectly.

YES THIS. It left me with exactly the same kind of breathless feeling. (I wanted way less Spider-man -- if he's not unmasking, there's no reason for him to be in Civil War, tbh -- and way more Wanda and Nat.)

Off-topic, but have you heard about Vote Loki? What do you think?

...I have not. But speaking as an American, invoking a morally grey trickster god is the absolute last thing we needed this election.

I had kept myself spoiler free for Civil War, not even watching the trailers so everything in it was a surprise. But I was right there with Bucky and Sam in the car smiling and nodding at the Cap/Sharon kiss. It was only after the film when a friend complained about it being "shoehorned in" I was like really? I've kind of been anticipating it since Winter Soldier. It was well done. I like your take on it being Sharon's reward.

Also hi :)

Totes.

Think Barnes ever heard about Pvt. Lorraine? Would he crack about that with Sam?

I dunno if Barnes did, but I bet Sharon was raised on that story. ^_^

Now, that would be The 5 +1, how Peggy cast that story depending on where Sharon was at the time of hearing.

But really, that kiss is very "I woman that is going to get my ass handed to me for breaking the rules, I'm getting this for my bucket list." Lorraine got more of a reaction from Steve. And Peggy certainly took a page.

Yeah, anybody who was surprised that they're moving forward with Steve/Sharon was.. working very hard to not notice it in the previous movie (and to ignore all discussion of comics history.)

It could have been done better, but given the movie it was, it was done as well as anything else, I thought. The two of them acted it really well, I thought, to make it not just a bland action movie kiss but to show how complicated everything was in that moment.

"well I've just torpedoed my entire life in the service of What Would Aunt Peggy Do, so I'm at least going to Damn well kiss Steve Rogers while I'm at it."

Because, let's be real: that's exactly what Aunt Peggy did!

As for Betty, I know the Buffalo had filming conflicts, hence no Hulk, but I can't help but wonder if they're going to reboot Hulk (again) eventually, and used Ross here as an anchor?

Aunt Peggy totally did!

Possibly? Or possibly the Russo brothers want them to bring the Hulk movie more into continuity and used Ross as a passive-aggressive way to do that. But if that's so, I am still all angrysadface that they're using Ross that way and, again, not even mentioning Betty, in a context where she ought to have Opinions. (They wouldn't even have to use the same actress, if that's the problem.)

Heretical opinion: CACW wasn't good for women. Yes, Natasha had a hell of a role, but Wanda spent most of the movie losing her agency, and we can have a long discussion about Sharon's role. And the only other woman - T'Challa's bodyguard (I forget the term) - was only on screen for very minimal time.

Pepper? Hope? Laura? Maria? Any woman who could slap sense into these testosterone-filled idiots? Nope. Betty? Definitely falls in this last bit.

You forgot Aunt May! ...oh poor aunt may what did they do to aunt may.

And Friday, I guess, although mostly what we learn from Friday is that Tony doesn't listen to AIs with women's voices or want them to talk back to him the way they can if they have male voices (or even no voice at all). And I guess Tony's mom got to have a flashback speaking part before she died? So we did have have quite a few named speaking female characters.

But are there actually people who think CACW was good for women?? Yeah, I think Sharon's being unfairly maligned, and Natasha was great as usual, and I still haven't seen Ultron, so I'm not sure I can judge Wanda, and there was nothing *egregiously* bad - I mean, nothing (except Aunt May) made me *actively* angry. But. As a whole, that was not a movie that was good for women. (And it just barely passes the 'two women speak to each other' test, and for an ensemble movie with three women in major roles that... says something.)

Wow, I'm with you.... The Sharon/Steve kiss didn't read like a "reward for the hot dude lead" at all. Not at all. I love the actor who plays Sharon. She really has brought the character to life with just a very small part in those 2 movies. She is so vivid. Great job there.

I love Betty and I want her back.

Sharon is great! And anyone with pantsfeels with Steve who wasn't Bucky was going to be hated by large parts of the fandom, so she's doing a great job with a hard road.

Betty needs to come back.

If we lose Betty, and Pepper stays offscreen, and Thor doesn't have Jane and Darcy in his last movie, and Peggy is dead, and Frigga is dead, and Maria continues to be Agent Not Appearing, that's all of the Phase 1 female characters except Natasha (and Sif, if she gets to come back) gone. While we still have Rhodey and Bucky and Jarvis (ish) and Loki (probably) and Nick (probably) and Heimdall and Ross and, of course, all the male leads. :/ That's not.. a great pattern, Marvel.

Edited 2016-05-23 00:28 (UTC)