melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)
melannen ([personal profile] melannen) wrote2016-01-28 11:59 am

snow

So, it snew! That happened. I live, and am back at work trying to catch up with half the staff still stuck on cul-de-sacs. We only got about 20 inches but apparently people just up the road got 36. It was a fun five days of snowed-in-ness, during which I shut the laptop in case of power outage and then just... didn't get around to opening it again even after the rist of power outage was over.

This sounds super virtuous, but tbh my laptop is so cranky these days that it is not a pleasure to use it. Also I spent most of that time listening to podcasts on my phone while playing solitaire, so it actually wasn't virtuous at all.

The podcast I was listening to is Rex Factor, recommended by sister, which is reviewing and rating all the Kings and Queens of England and Scotland. So far I have made it from Alfred the Great to Mary Tudor. And earned 85 stars in the solitaire app.

So far, the podcast is mostly making me think - other than 'wow, I don't remember nearly as much British political history as I thought' and 'this is actually a really good way to do history' - is just how much power women always had. Like, you read 'feminist history' things that talk about shifts in womens' rights over time, or that pick out individual powerful women, but what you get going through right in order like this is that there was almost always a woman running things. Like, there's occasional gaps, like some of the Saxon kings who outlived their mothers and grandmothers and then deliberately didn't marry, or the last decade of Henry the 8th's reign after Queen Katherine was too old to lead his armies for him anymore. But what the versions that pick out the powerful women make it easy to miss is that they weren't actually... exceptional? Like, I'm pretty sure up to the point where I am, there were about as many Queens of England who led armies to battle as there were Kings of England. (Well, maybe fewer numerically because they've tended to live longer, but as much time in power, anyway.)

Anyway, also it's got me thinking that I need to study up some dynastic history that isn't British because that's really the only ones I've ever studied. And the podcast listening has woken up the princesses who live in my head, who need at least some history influence other than British, since they live in what is basically Doggerland. (Every little girl had princesses they made up and have whole dynastic histories for, right? Mine are eight sisters: one of them becomes an architect, two become ruling queens, one becomes a sorceress-saint, one becomes a knight, one becomes a scholar, one becomes a banker, and one never amounts to anything much. Only one of 'em marries a prince; he marries her because she promises to win his war for him if she gets to run the country afterward and he's like, eh, better her than me.)

...anyway, of course that means I've gotten NOTHING ELSE done except some snow shoveling and some fingerloop, so that's fun.

I want to do a whole long rant about how they're pushing really hard to clear the roads at the expense of pedestrian access, and if previous patterns hold, there will still be five-foot piles of snow on all the wheelchair access ramps come Easter, but you can probably take that as read.
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[personal profile] alexseanchai 2016-01-28 05:58 pm (UTC)(link)
*eyes last paragraph* yuuup.
muccamukk: Rommie wearing a party hat and holding a noise maker. Text: "Warship" (Andromeda: War/Party)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2016-01-28 06:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I think all my personal dynastic histories were universe-jumping time travellers, that could be in every book I read. And there were good and evil ones that fought over the souls of my favourite characters in this massive, endless family feud.

I'd rec French dynastic history, especially the Valois and Bourbons. Very interesting and great women all around.
muccamukk: Amanda and Duncan tango dancing on the Eiffel Tower (HL: Tango in the Sky)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2016-01-28 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I had an intense universe jumping phase, which happily coincided with the time we owned a genealogy computer program. So I made this banana pants family tree for them all. It keep trying to tell me that people couldn't be 900 years old, and I kept telling it it knew nothing of the world.

I've heard the new Mary Beard book is good, but have not yet gotten to it.
muccamukk: Wanda walking away, surrounded by towering black trees, her red cloak bright. (DC: Food!)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2016-01-28 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Haha. I didn't have magic. Just said SCIENCE! and waved my hands about. But they also existed outside spacetime, so there was that.

I think you probably put more work into yours. Mine was mainly an excuse to have Jedi-Timelord-Librarians (just like me!) fuck with continuity and save/murder canon characters.
beatrice_otter: Saavik and Spock (Saavik and Spock)

[personal profile] beatrice_otter 2016-01-29 03:25 am (UTC)(link)
My personal dynastic histories were Star Trek characters.

There was one where the Enterprise got sent off to another dimension/time/whatever and the descendants somehow passed down roles in the crew via genetics, and so Picard and Vash's great-grandchild was in command when they re-established contact with the Federation (also they colonized a planet somewhere in there).

But the one that I spent by far the most time on--including writing out all the genealogies and such--was the one about Spock and Saavik's daughter and her descendants and how she became the Eldest Mother for the clan (yes, I was Heavily Influenced by the 80s and early 90s TOS books, especially Diane Duane's) and also a High Priestess, and such. I lost the genealogy, but I still play around with the character occasionally.
muccamukk: Captain Sulu sipping tea. (ST: Tea)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2016-01-29 03:31 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, that's a cool idea. Reminds me of the A.C. Crispin books, too. I really like legacy stuff, generally.

Though I wanted to finish Eldest Mother of the clan with of the Cave Bear. Which might either explain a lot of things, or be a crossover too far.
beatrice_otter: Saavik and Spock (Saavik and Spock)

[personal profile] beatrice_otter 2016-01-29 05:51 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, that is a crossover too far. (Which I mostly say because I read Clan of the Cave Bear--or at least the first part of it--in high school and didn't like it.)

I love A.C. Crispin's Trek books, too. Zar was awesome!
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Off the Latest Things page

[personal profile] needled_ink_1975 2016-01-28 08:03 pm (UTC)(link)
(random stranger; ignore at will!)

You're right that none of those queens were exceptional. But then none of the kings were either.

This is a general question being asked, here and now, because yours in one of several posts that have, in some way, sort of complained that certain women weren't especially exceptional. Here it is:

Why must women be exceptional to be important (or *more* important) than some guys who just happened to be born royal, or who got actual military instruction, or any kind of education, and then acted on it?

Why do men get to just be men, but we women have to be exceptional?

It seems to be a general expectation that various women who made some kind of difference, in whichever way, were also somehow superhuman. They really weren't. A little smarter, maybe, or maybe they had clearer insights into things once considered commonplace, or they paid more attention to their husband's studies than he'd ever have thought possible. But at heart they were ordinary women, not much different to me. That's why women like that are role models: we can relate to them.

Truly exceptional people are almost creatures set apart. One might admire them. But emulate them even slightly? Not possible, unless one is also exceptional in a way that sets one apart.

I'd rather look at someone like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and say to my step-granddaughter, "Oh yes, you can be every bit like her, because she was and is every bit like you." I couldn't do that if I regarded Justice Ginsburg as exceptional.

–N
isis: (head)

Re: Off the Latest Things page

[personal profile] isis 2016-01-28 09:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Not the OP, but I think you've misread [personal profile] melannen's use of 'exceptional'. What I got from that paragraph was that powerful women on the British throne were not the exception, but the rule; that there weren't a lot of weak queens with a few impressive ones, but instead they were ALL powerful women.
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Re: Off the Latest Things page

[personal profile] needled_ink_1975 2016-01-28 09:08 pm (UTC)(link)
If I've misread, I apologize.

But the word 'exceptional' is one that's been used by men for a long time to keep us women in our place: no, we couldn't possibly be the next Marie Curie ("No, you can't be like Amelia Earhart," said my father) because she was exceptional.

We're using that word in much the same way, still. Not good.
isis: (head)

[personal profile] isis 2016-01-28 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
The Mongol dynasty including Genghis is interesting, plus it's rather short because the Mongols tended to drink themselves to death and also kill each other off. There were some powerful women, as well. I enjoyed Dan Carlin's Wrath of the Khans series, if you want a podcast, though his style can be irritating.
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[personal profile] ellen_fremedon 2016-01-28 10:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Jack Weatherford's Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World and The Secret History of the Mongol Queens are very good, though I wish he'd just worked in chronological order rather than saving all the details of the women's stories for the second book.
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[personal profile] peoriapeoriawhereart 2016-01-29 08:29 am (UTC)(link)
I can also recommend those two books, I read them quite recently. I read the women first.
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[personal profile] skygiants 2016-01-28 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)
That podcast sounds fascinating, thank you for the rec! I'll be curious to hear about if you find any other cool dynastic history stuff to read (I am currently looking for more interesting fun nonfiction.)
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[personal profile] stellar_dust 2016-01-29 02:02 am (UTC)(link)
Wow I only just finished Charles II and I've been listening since October. :P
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[personal profile] beatrice_otter 2016-01-29 03:16 am (UTC)(link)
By the best, most accurate analysis historians can make, women have consistently made up at least 10% of every revolutionary/rebellious army in history (and many established armies, though those generally have a lower rate because a more established government has more power and time to weed out the people they don't want). Yes, including the American Revolution. Yes, including the Confederacy. Sometimes the women were disguised as men; sometimes they were relegated to more organizational/medical/behind the lines work; but often they just picked up arms and joined up, and people went along with it.

We sometimes tell one or two stories about them--for example, when I was a pre-teen I absolutely LOVED a book called Emma Edmonds, Nurse and Spy. But those books often make it seem like whatever one the book focuses on was EXTREMELY UNUSUAL, rather than one of hundreds or thousands.
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[personal profile] muccamukk 2016-01-29 03:37 am (UTC)(link)
I thought that while it was pretty pop history, and basically took the own women's journals on faith a lot of the time, but overall Liar, Temptress, Soldier, Spy: Four Women Undercover in the Civil War by Karen Abbott did a good job of showing the different roles women played in the US Civil War. They certainly were remarkable women, but the author made it clear that she was just picking these four because they were well(ish) documented, and there were lots of similar women doing all kinds of things.
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[personal profile] dhampyresa 2016-01-30 12:11 am (UTC)(link)
Rex Factor is a hilarious concept. What are they judging the monarchs on?
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[personal profile] vass 2016-01-30 07:52 pm (UTC)(link)
SUBSCRIBED. Thanks for the rec, that sounds great.