melannen: A warrior woman with wild brown hair against a pink sky (swordmaid)
melannen ([personal profile] melannen) wrote2010-03-22 11:34 pm

A post that is not epic! For once!

[community profile] con_txt has posted their annual pre-con "what fandoms are you in?" poll, and I wish to share with you what I put in the "If you clicked 'other', elaborate here" box, because it amuses me as summary of my fannishness at this exact moment. (It's true! But it still amuses me.)
Usually, "other" means "a variety of small book fandoms, indy comics, and/or obsolete video games. But mostly small book fandoms".

In the RPS category, it specifically means "British comedians that are on panel shows a lot". (But also Discovery Channel, NPR, and various other media personalities and presenters that aren't exactly either actors, pundits, or reality-show people, and have shows and fandoms that blur the border between real and fictional; I don't even know how to describe the genre, but I know it when I see it. Mythbusters. A Prairie Home Companion. OMG SOMEBODY HAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN 3-2-1 CONTACT FIC. Anything John Hodgman-related. Top Gear. You know. That.)

Also, Muppets/Sesame Street is an RPS fandom, because muppets are real people. :P

And by "other actors" - Doctor Who/Torchwood RPS. even if nobody has written me any Pertwee/Delgado yet, sadface.

And the "Sports figures" tickymark means "90% of the time I could care less about pro sports but figure skating hits my kinks every time, why god why."
In other random fandom news, [personal profile] brownbetty made a post about crossovers involving professional figure-outers and professional secret-keepers, and how she likes them best when the figure-outers never quite figure it out, and it never works when they find out the secret too easily.

I agree halfway: if the secret is discovered too easily, or the people trying to figure out the secret don't have to do the work, it ruins the crossover. But my problem with many of the example crossovers people listed is that the figure-outers ought to *know the secret already*, because the figure-outers in our fandoms are usually pretty well connected and very good at what they do. And if they don't know, it's probably because the secret-keepers have been actively interfering with them well before your crossover started. These are people whose avocations mesh: they shouldn't always be walking into the crossover with a clean slate.

Example: House/Stargate crossovers. I can't read most House/Stargate crossovers, because if you accept Stargate canon, House almost certainly *already knows* about the Stargate project, at least its existence. He's universally acknowledged as one of the world's best diagnosticians, a specialist in epidemiology and infectious disease, and a certified genius. He's regularly called (and sometimes conscripted) to solve medical problems for government agencies, including sometimes security-sensitive ones. If he wasn't on Dr. Frasier's go-to list for consults from about S1 of SG1, then something is wrong with your universe.

Plus, at least once Stargate Command actually invoked their "evacuate your list of selected scientific geniuses to the Alpha Site" protocol, so chances are House has not only been pulled into consults for Cheyenne Mountain, he's actually *been off-planet*. fact, that applies to any Stargate crossover with a fandom where one of your main characters is a certified genius or the best in their field. (Bones and Numb3rs, I'm looking at you.)

The inverse applies, too. For example: any Highlander crossover in which any FBI agents are involved. In Highlander canon, there are Immortals (and Watchers) who have infiltrated the FBI (and, by implication, other law enforcement) specifically to prevent the secret from getting out. So your Mulder And Scully Investigate Beheadings story had better explain why Matthew McCormick isn't getting involved.

There is no universe in which I believe that Torchwood/UNIT and the Ministry of Magic are mutually ignorant of each other; if nothing else, the poor PM has probably called the Minister of Magic in panic over something that was Torchwood's fault, and vice versa (Okay, a story where every time that happens, they wipe each others' memories and the PM is the *only* one who knows would be amusing. Admittedly. But even then the PM should know about both.) And anyone who's top of their craft in forgery, fraud, or criminal capers probably knows Dr. Brennan's family, by reputation if nothing else (H'lo Leverage! White Collar! SPN!) (A story where Burke and Booth are put on the same case and it turns out Neal spent a summer 'prenticed with Tempe's parents and was her first crush: awesome, or *deeply* awesome?)

There are some universes in which the noncomprehension does work. NCIS/Stargate, fr'ex: it's believable both that Stargate Command is too disorganized to quash the investigation immediately, and that NCIS would be obedient enough to actually stay quashed. Or any excuse that requires Torchwood to be incompetent is fine with me. It's when, by in-universe logic of one or both universes, they *should* already know, and they *don't*, that I lose faith.

This isn't to say I don't like that kind of story; "ships passing in the night" or someone who almost-but-not-quite solves it are a ton of fun. But these canons (even the technically non-SF ones) are full of over-the-topness and coincidences and people who are way too good at too many things: run with it. (One or more) of your figure-outers already knows the secret, and has to hide both that they know and how they know: this makes your story even *better*.

...all of the above of course assumes that you're writing a crossover where the two canons take place in the same universe. When you get people moving between universes, other issues crop up. (Although related ones, really. Most shows, SF or not, have had an AU episode of some kind by the fourth or fifth season: your characters really shouldn't be going in to that blind, either.)
starlady: (crew)

[personal profile] starlady 2010-03-23 04:36 am (UTC)(link)
When you get people moving between universes, other issues crop up.

It might be the champagne, but I feel like there's a bumper sticker in there somewhere.
ct: NCIS: Kate aiming her weapon. (NCIS: kate)

[personal profile] ct 2010-03-23 05:27 am (UTC)(link)
*wandering in via the Network page*

Interesting post. I always figured that Kate, at least, would know *something* about the SGC, even if no one else from NCIS does. The possibility of alien baddies would be relevant information when you're on the President's secret service detail.
amaresu: Sapphire and Steel from the opening (Default)

[personal profile] amaresu 2010-03-23 07:50 am (UTC)(link)
That is a brilliant thought. Going by that logic it's even possible Kate has been to the SGC and everything.

I'm now picturing a bunch of Secret Service people sitting in a room learning how to tell if the President or those close to him have been taken over by the Gould. And other things to do during a Foothold situation.
beatrice_otter: Me in red--face not shown (Default)

[personal profile] beatrice_otter 2010-03-23 11:41 am (UTC)(link)
Oooh, that would be a great story I'd love to see!
finch: (Default)

[personal profile] finch 2010-03-23 06:25 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, a story where every time that happens, they wipe each others' memories and the PM is the *only* one who knows would be amusing.

I would read that.

I prefer my secret conspiracies to actually work together rather than against each other, but then I always preferred the ones where Awesome People Team Up! (You know, mashing up Indiana Jones and The Mummy or having House's old buddy Buckaroo Bonzai show up or something.)
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)

[personal profile] staranise 2010-03-23 06:30 am (UTC)(link)
I really like this. I love "the SGC realistically leaks into the rest of the world" fic, because it frustrates me when both fanfic and canon keep the Stargate program as this tiny hermetically-sealed world all by itself, when it is 1997 and we are going to other planets OMG. How I pine for a story in which the SGC goes public, the world does not end, and it is all political and interesting.
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)

[personal profile] staranise 2010-03-23 08:05 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm waiting for the story where somebody breaks the SGC's cover in the media, and the world's reaction is "Okay, so where's the part that's actually news?"

I want a story about the people who try to cash in on all their coupons for a square mile on the moon from 1950s cereal boxes. And the time everybody sued everybody else for militarizing space. And the roaring trade in Real Genuine Alien Artifacts which used to be souvenirs of Egypt, made in China.
elf: My icon (really) (My icon (really))

[personal profile] elf 2010-03-23 06:38 am (UTC)(link)
It occurs to me that I've been obsessing on this kind of crossover for a while.

I want White Collar/Batman. Want Peter & Neal to be sent to Gotham on the trail of some international art thief, and wind up staying at the Wayne mansion.

Want X-Files/Harry Potter. Because while the FBI may know about the existence of wizards, I'm pretty sure nobody's told Mulder.

Now I want to make a big chart with Secret Keepers in column A and Figure Outers in Column B, and convince someone there needs to be a ficfest about it.
amaresu: Sapphire and Steel from the opening (Default)

[personal profile] amaresu 2010-03-23 07:47 am (UTC)(link)
Sometimes I think X-Files/Highlander crossovers are the reason people hate crossovers. They can be done well, but almost always aren't. At least that was my experience back when I still attempted to read them.

The weird thing about House for me is that you can have him in the know on almost anything and I'll just go with it because it's House. I've never actually thought about the fact that he's probably on the To Save list. Now I'm wondering if Reid (Criminal Minds) would also be on the list. Genius in multiple subjects and has more stored in his head about behavioural science then they could possibly take with them. This is an interesting thought for Stargate crossovers. Thank you.

(One or more) of your figure-outers already knows the secret, and has to hide both that they know and how they know: this makes your story even *better*.

I would go further and say make it someone you wouldn't expect. At this point if I'm reading a NCIS/Supernatural crossover I'm pretty much expecting Gibbs to already know about the Supernatural. It's boring by now. Give me a story where McGee actually grew up in a Hunter family or Kate's not just a former Catholic schoolgirl.
amaresu: Sapphire and Steel from the opening (Default)

[personal profile] amaresu 2010-03-23 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm in the "Scully is the most important person in Mulder's life (however you choose to interpret that)" camp myself, so I suspect that if I were still reading X-Files fic I'd have similar issues. XD

The To Save list may not be the nicest thing in existence, but it makes a lot of sense, both in-world and real-world, politically as it's something that it would just be odd not to have. And it does provide all sorts of interesting possibilities. I'm not a big Numbers fan but I suspect Charlie would have issues with Don not being on the list. And the rest of their friends and family.

(Someone really ought to write the story about what happens when all the crossovered geniuses are stuck at the Alpha Site together, too.)

I'm not familiar enough with nearly enough canons to even think about attempting this, but boy would that be fun to read. Plus the possibility that some of these geniuses weren't informed about anything until some military personal picked them up.

I read an interesting Criminal Minds/SPN snippet that had JJ from a Hunter family. There really are a ton of characters that it would work with as all we need is absent family or mysterious family. The McKay's as Canadian Hunters is a fun idea. I have my own private backstory about how they were Watchers and that's why Rodney and Jeannie turned out the way they did.

it's easy to go too far and get accusations of, you know, the equivalent of making everybody Harry Potter's long-lost sister.

This reminds of a challenge that ran around the end of S1 of Heroes that was basically to write a character in the fandom of your choice as a member of the Petrelli family. There were some pretty hilarious results.

scrollgirl: prentiss and jj on the plane (cm girls)

[personal profile] scrollgirl 2010-03-24 02:15 am (UTC)(link)
I read an interesting Criminal Minds/SPN snippet that had JJ from a Hunter family.

Ooh, link please? I'd love to read this!
amaresu: Sapphire and Steel from the opening (Default)

[personal profile] amaresu 2010-03-24 02:29 am (UTC)(link)
I don't even know. I didn't save it. I know I found it off of [ profile] crossovernews but I couldn't tell you how long ago that was.
alixtii: Is it Yuletide yet? (Yuletide)

[personal profile] alixtii 2010-03-23 12:23 pm (UTC)(link)
The PM isn't supposed to know about Torchwood; that's canon from "The Christmas Invasion."
alixtii: Player from <i>Where on Earth Is Carmen Sandiego?</i> playing the game. (Default)

[personal profile] alixtii 2010-03-23 06:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, in "The Christmas Invasion" Jones of course does know about Torchwood, and Torchwood S1 has a reference to Jack coordinating something with the PM. So it's a fact honored more in the breech (or perhaps even forgotten completely by the writers), which fits nicely under the "Torchwood's incompetence as the least secret secret organization ever makes anything possible" category.

But Torchwood's relationship to the parliamentary government of the United Kingdom is something which changes signifigance fairly deeply from season to season, so.
dancesontrains: (Doctor/Tardis)

[personal profile] dancesontrains 2010-03-24 01:52 am (UTC)(link)
"British comedians that are on panel shows a lot".

Which ones? I know a few people (sadly lj-only) who are into various comics as well :D
dancesontrains: (The truth is an excuse for lack of imagi)

[personal profile] dancesontrains 2010-03-24 03:55 am (UTC)(link)
I was going to write an epic answer in reply, then I ran out of spoons, so just have this Charlie Brooker and David Mitchell Pokemon AU instead.
dancesontrains: (Nerds are smrt)

[personal profile] dancesontrains 2010-03-24 04:53 am (UTC)(link)
Mostly from The Big Fat Quiz Show, yes! I would recommend watching Newswipe as well, it's kind of like a TDS and Olbermann combination but British and low budget.

Personally I don't care much for the Brooker/Mitchell; I'd rather read American Fake News/Punditry crossovers, but no one has written them yet and I have no spoons for writing anything myself these days. So I'll wait like so: :)
Edited 2010-03-24 04:53 (UTC)
dancesontrains: Ginny Weasley holding up a book marked 'Death Note' (Ginny's Death Note)

[personal profile] dancesontrains 2010-03-26 12:52 am (UTC)(link)
Just as planned >:)
rionaleonhart: final fantasy x-2: the sun is rising, yuna looks to the future. (Default)

[personal profile] rionaleonhart 2010-03-27 08:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Hello! Don't mind me; I'm just setting down this heavy episode of Would I Lie To You? here:

In which Brooker and Mitchell shout at each other a lot in what is clearly an entirely meant-to-be way.

I might be able to point you towards the episode of You Have Been Watching on which Mitchell guested as well, but I feel I've already been a bit presumptuous for a random stranger parachuting into your journal (sorry). If you're interested, let me know.

(I, er, didn't get here by Googling my own name, incidentally. I was searching for "charlie brooker and david mitchell". That may not be much better.)
rionaleonhart: final fantasy x-2: the sun is rising, yuna looks to the future. (Default)

[personal profile] rionaleonhart 2010-03-28 11:11 am (UTC)(link)
Awww, thank you very much! I'm glad you've enjoyed my fic.

Hooray, The Unbelievable Truth! I don't know whether you're aware, but two of the episodes in the upcoming series are going to feature Charlie Brooker. I was lucky enough to be at the recording, and the Brooker-Mitchell dynamic was absolutely wonderful.

Sadly, I have come across no Mitchell/Anderson pizza-delivery fic. (That was a great moment on The Bubble. I love it when the guests flirt with Mitchell.)

And I don't know anyone involved but Brooker and Mitchell, but I very much enjoy your Brooker-and-Olbermann fic concept regardless.

Rachel and David just get giggly, and then extremely blitzed on silly cocktails, and end up falling asleep cuddled in a completely nonsexual way on Charlie's sitting room floor, whereupon they awake in confusion and awkwardness to find that the other two have covered them with a blanket, drawn mustaches on them in permanent marker and then left to get breakfast.