so now you're saying "rape'n'ravage" is something you've *seen*. In books. In the last DECADE. This is somehow different than it being the widespread toxic trope you implied at first.
Okay, it was a bad example; I do realize it is far less common now, although I still see it and related forced-seduction scenarios way more than I'd like in recently published historicals. I picked it because it was an obviously problematic trope and because many of the more subtle tropes I see as problematic are ones that are widely accepted as Good and Right Ways to Live by people more conservative than I am. I approach books--all books--from a liberal feminist viewpoint.
wow, it's tough to be a white man on teh internetz.
I'm actually a woman.
The majority of books I read, not counting romance novels, are by women (in 2009, 60%, and it was only that low because I decided to reread all of Discworld towards the end of the year). I'm not an avid reader of romance novels, but I usually read somewhere between 2-4 a month, and while it's not my favorite genre, it is one I sometimes enjoy and have favorite writers in (examples: Catherine Coulter, Teresa Medeiros, recently Eloisa James's Duchess series, although I can think of a few older books by the first two that I had serious issues with). Including romances, the percentage of male authors I read dwindles to a small minority. I also read a lot of paranormal/urban fantasy by women, which a lot of readers seem to consider as overlapping with romance, and the occasional SF/romance or SF/mystery hybrid. But I imagine I could talk about romance novels I've enjoyed until I'm blue in the face without "proving" I like them enough.
I read positive reviews more often than negative ones (you are correct that negative ones are more entertaining, but positive ones are more helpful for finding books I'll actually enjoy in a non-lolsy way; and there are other review sites that tend to not give negative reviews which I've also followed at various times). Now, granted, most of the romance novels I read are historical or paranormal, which I recognize are different from other subgenres and in some ways perhaps still exhibiting older tropes. I realize that many things are much less common in contemporary romances (e.g. focus on virginity); unfortunately for me, I'm not very interested in novels with contemporary settings of any genre.
I still think that different genres are more prone to different types of--negative stereotyping, cliches, fail, whatever term you wish to use. This is because different genres focus on different subjects. Because romance focuses on women and romance, it highlights gender and gender-in-relationship issues, so there is more potential for going wrong there. Of course these issues can arise in other genres, since genres don't live in untouching bubbles, but not with the same frequency. SF has tons and tons of problems with sexism, some of which overlap and some of which don't so much. I still enjoy SF as a genre.
I'm sorry I've phrased things sloppily. I should be taking more time to comment. But I don't really appreciate all the assumptions you've made about me (I must be a man, seriously?), or the condescension.
Perhaps this will read better for you, since it's coming from people who identify more as romance fans than me (note the mention, in 2008, on debating "forced seduction/rape in romance"): http://saveblackromance.com/?p=223
I think this conversation has derailed pretty far from the issue under discussion and I'm not sure it's appropriate to continue having it in melannen's journal.
I'm also not interested in further trying to prove I like romance enough to be able to criticize it.
no subject
Okay, it was a bad example; I do realize it is far less common now, although I still see it and related forced-seduction scenarios way more than I'd like in recently published historicals. I picked it because it was an obviously problematic trope and because many of the more subtle tropes I see as problematic are ones that are widely accepted as Good and Right Ways to Live by people more conservative than I am. I approach books--all books--from a liberal feminist viewpoint.
wow, it's tough to be a white man on teh internetz.
I'm actually a woman.
The majority of books I read, not counting romance novels, are by women (in 2009, 60%, and it was only that low because I decided to reread all of Discworld towards the end of the year). I'm not an avid reader of romance novels, but I usually read somewhere between 2-4 a month, and while it's not my favorite genre, it is one I sometimes enjoy and have favorite writers in (examples: Catherine Coulter, Teresa Medeiros, recently Eloisa James's Duchess series, although I can think of a few older books by the first two that I had serious issues with). Including romances, the percentage of male authors I read dwindles to a small minority. I also read a lot of paranormal/urban fantasy by women, which a lot of readers seem to consider as overlapping with romance, and the occasional SF/romance or SF/mystery hybrid. But I imagine I could talk about romance novels I've enjoyed until I'm blue in the face without "proving" I like them enough.
I read positive reviews more often than negative ones (you are correct that negative ones are more entertaining, but positive ones are more helpful for finding books I'll actually enjoy in a non-lolsy way; and there are other review sites that tend to not give negative reviews which I've also followed at various times). Now, granted, most of the romance novels I read are historical or paranormal, which I recognize are different from other subgenres and in some ways perhaps still exhibiting older tropes. I realize that many things are much less common in contemporary romances (e.g. focus on virginity); unfortunately for me, I'm not very interested in novels with contemporary settings of any genre.
I still think that different genres are more prone to different types of--negative stereotyping, cliches, fail, whatever term you wish to use. This is because different genres focus on different subjects. Because romance focuses on women and romance, it highlights gender and gender-in-relationship issues, so there is more potential for going wrong there. Of course these issues can arise in other genres, since genres don't live in untouching bubbles, but not with the same frequency. SF has tons and tons of problems with sexism, some of which overlap and some of which don't so much. I still enjoy SF as a genre.
I'm sorry I've phrased things sloppily. I should be taking more time to comment. But I don't really appreciate all the assumptions you've made about me (I must be a man, seriously?), or the condescension.
Perhaps this will read better for you, since it's coming from people who identify more as romance fans than me (note the mention, in 2008, on debating "forced seduction/rape in romance"): http://saveblackromance.com/?p=223
I think this conversation has derailed pretty far from the issue under discussion and I'm not sure it's appropriate to continue having it in
I'm also not interested in further trying to prove I like romance enough to be able to criticize it.