melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)
melannen ([personal profile] melannen) wrote2011-04-07 08:59 pm

Love & Marriage

One thing I love in a good SF story is ways of doing love, marriage, and romance that don't buy in to our society's idea of love+romance+sex+monogamy all on one single person as the only way to do it.

I have a small collection of worlds that have come up with better ways, and I have a great deal of fun trying to fit the 'shipping debates from various fandoms into these other ways of looking at love. I especially love the way that many of them explicitly acknowledge the value of non-sexual, sometimes non-romantic, relationships that are of equal importance with the sexual ones.

Since I've been playing with Dresden files crossover fic in a couple of these fandoms lately, I thought it might be time to introduce you all to some of my favorites! Plus I really want people to do more AUs using these ideas, so I am selfishly posting this in order to increase the probability (even if only slightly.) So here are my five favorite alternate marriage/romance systems as displayed in SF, in order of increasing complexity.

GROUP MARRIAGE
Original Source: Many, but you should all read The Tale of the Five because Diane Duane writes it more joyously than anyone. And without the creepy bits that Heinlein puts in.
Fanworks: Many! Not many TotF fanworks though. Which is a travesty.
Someone else's explanation: Group Marriage @ wikipedia

Explanation: Presumably all of my readers have at least a passing familiarity with the concept of polyamory and it not being horrible, right? Group marriage is a subset of polyamory (though there's an argument to be made that actually modern Western polyamory was born out of group marriage as portrayed by Heinlein.) Group marriage involves a group of more than two people (usually of at least two genders) formalizing a relationship in which they share, usually, some form of household and parenting duties, commit to the relationships within the marriage as their most important relationships, and generally agree to some level of sexual or emotional fidelity to the marriage partners as well.

Most of the other relationships described below are really subsets of group marriage, and a lot of SF includes versions of it, but the 'simple' form (not really simple at all!) that is just a group of people deciding they all love each other enough to attempt perfect union is always going to be my favorite. Especially when it's built into a world where that is considered completely natural and normalized.

Tale of the Five (Also sometimes called the Middle Kingdoms series) by Diane Duane is the series that does it best. It's a fairly standard High Fantasy trilogy about dragons and lost swords and magic and kingship and evil sorcerers, but it's set in a world where bisexuality and polyamory are the norm - all relationships are open unless otherwise stated, and marriages can have as many people as you want. And she works this into the cloth of the world seamlessly, with all the ramifications worked out. When I'm writing an everybody's-bi-everybody's-poly story, I think of it as a Middle Kingdoms AU.

The most important thing with writing a group marriage and making it interesting is to acknowledge that every smaller combination of people within the group has their own relationship within the larger marriage, and those relationships are all different, with their own dynamics, and all worth their own exploration. You get a good group together, marry them, and then start exploring all the inner 'ships, and you can keep exploring forever. (One marriage in the Middle Kingdoms has seven people in it, which makes 128 total relationships. Someday I am going to write a drabble series that explores them all.)

Group marriage is the obvious solution to shipping wars in about 90% of fandoms.


LINE MARRIAGE
Original Source: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Robert A. Heinlein
Fanworks:Not as much as there should be of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress fanfic.
Someone else's explanation: Line Marriage @ the Heinlein concordance

My Explanation: Heinlein played around a lot with polyamory, but I think line marriage is my very favorite of all of his ideas about sex, if only because it's so functional.

Basically, a line marriage is a poly marriage where every few years, as the older members of the marriage die, they marry in young people to replace them. So the marriage always has (usually it seems like a dozen or so) members ranging in age from teenagers to elderly. As a result, the marriage itself never dies. Children of a line marriage marry into other lines, and don't inherit from their parents, all the assets remaining with the marriage. In a lot of ways, a line marriage is like a corporation, only less soulless and with more sex.

Anyone in a line marriage is free to have sex with anyone else in the line, but sex and romantic love are not really the important part. And there are often complicated sub-relationships within the line, with some pairings and participants far more sexual than others, and also things going on around seniority, with lots of room for cross-generational goodness. The oldest members lead the family, but it requires a unanimous vote to add a new member.

I love line marriage; I rather suspect it's the best idea Heinlein ever had about sex. Line marriage is a fun way to do a family-of-choice that's a bit more structured and might outlive its founders, especially if you like adding a bit of incestuous overtones and/or age difference for spice. Crane Poole & Schmidt is totally a line marriage. So is SG1. So is the Batfamily. (In fact, a better example of a line marriage than the Batfamily I cannot imagine. Except for the way the writers are uncomfortable with line marriage and keep trying to make the younger members into blood relations: sure.)

SEDORETU
Original Source: Short stories in A Fisherman of the Inland Sea and The Birthday of the World by Ursula K. Le guin (A Fisherman of the Inland Sea, Unchosen Love and Mountain Ways)
Fanworks: An Ever-Fixed Mark, the amazing Merlin AU of amazing.
Someone else's explanation: The Introduction to 'Mountain Ways'.

Explanation: On the planet O, there are Men and Women. There are also Morning people and Evening people. Your identity as Morning or Evening -- your moiety -- is just as inborn and immutable, and at least as important, as your gender. You are of the same moiety as your mother, and the only tabooed sexual relationships on O are between people of the same moiety.

A marriage on O has four participants: a Morning man, a Morning woman, an Evening man, and an Evening woman. The Morning Woman and the Evening man sleep together, and their children are Morning; the Evening Woman and the Morning man sleep together, and their children are Evening. The two women also sleep together, as do the two men. The Morning pair don't sleep together, nor do the Evening pair, but they are expected to have close nonsexual relationships.

This is complicated enough, especially since nobody is getting married until there is a complete foursome together, but Le Guin managed to queer it up even in canon: apparently, while it is not common, it is not entirely unknown for a sedoretu to have three men or three women in it, or for people to be genderqueer within the sedoretu. As long as the morning/evening ratios are right, and nobody's sleeping with anybody from their own moiety, the neighbors are generally willing to look the other way; moiety is more important than gender.

Sedoretu are amazing fun, and there need to be for fandom AUs that use them: I only know of the one that's linked above, in BBC Merlin fandom. But there are so many other fandoms that have central foursomes for whom a sedoretu would be perfect! To start with I really want to see some Stargate teams sent to O and assumed to be sedoretu. But there are plenty more possibilities. To bring up Harry Potter again: Harry and Hermione are both Evening people, obviously, and Ron and Ginny are both Morning since Molly obvs. is, so they can all get married in a sedoretu! And Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione can be awesome, and so can Ron/Harry and Ginny/Hermione, and meanwhile Ron and Ginny can be all sibling-y together and Harry and Hermione can be total best friends.

Really in any situation where people solve the problem of slash + canon het by pairing up the het love interests too becomes an amazing sedoretu. This happens especially a lot in RPS fandoms but there are lots of fandoms where sedoretu could fit seamlessly. (Hodgins and Bones are Evening, Booth and Angela are Morning: y/y/mfy? And Wilson needs to find a nice Evening girl who wants to stick around, so that he and Cuddy and House can get married already.)

BRAIDS
Original Source: The Gameplayers of Zan by M. A. Foster + the rest of the Ler trilogy
Fanworks: None that I know of. ):
Someone else's explanation: Braid at the SF wikia

My Explanation: the Ler are a genetically engineered subspecies of humanity, intended to be 'supermen' but ending up more different than better. They live on a reservation on Earth and have worked very hard at building a separate cultural identity for themselves.

Ler have a complicated sexual cycle in which they go through long periods of sexuality and asexuality. They also have only two fertile periods in their lives, which means that the only way the population can grow is through very rare multiple births or third pregnancies. As a result, they have a marriage system design to maximize fertility and genetic mixing while still allowing a stable family structure.

The basic Ler social structure is a braid. The core of the braid are two insiblings, who were born and raised in the braid, but are not genetically related to each other. When the insiblings undergo their first fertile period, they have sex, and have a child together; that child is the elder outsibling. Before their second fertile period, each of the insiblings finds an outsibling from another braid who is about to reach their first period of fertility, and "weave" the new outsiblings into the braid. The children of the outsibling+insibling pairings become the insiblings of the next generation. Finally, the outsiblings have their second fertile period together, and their child becomes the braid's younger outsibling. The genes of the braid's founding insiblings are carried down through the generations without the insiblings ever being blood relations. (There is a science-ex-machina reason why the gender ratios almost always work out right.)

Relationships within the braid, and how those relationships change between sex allowed, sex required, and sex forbidden before & after the fertile periods, can get really chewy and complicated. (Also, while homosexuality is pretty much invisible in this canon, there are various ways that they get queered up anyway. My username comes from a character in this book & I am amused that even ten years ago I chose to identify with the minor character who is vaguely genderqueer and markedly, freakishly asexual by her society's standards.)

Braids are chock full of incesty fun. In fact, they are practically an excuse to do incest 'ships without making anyone be actually genetically related. One example of a story that would be *immeasurably* improved by giving them Ler braids is Wuthering Heights. It also works really well with fandoms where there's a core het partnership, and then canon brings in outside love interests for them instead. No need for tearful breakups or writing people out, just weave all four of 'em into the braid!

TROLL ROMANCE
Original Source: Homestuck
Fanworks: SO MUCH TROLL FIC
Someone else's explanation: Troll Romance the short version

My Explanation: Oh, Homestuck trolls. I don't even read the blasted comic, and yet.

Homestuck's trolls acknowledge four types of romantic relationships: Matespritship, Kismesissitude, Moirallegiance, and Auspisticism. We are told that the main thing troll romance has in common with human romance is that it's incredibly confusing for everyone involved, and most of what we know about it in practice comes from the experiences of a group of very young trolls who have other things to think about - it's like trying to derive human romance by reading Twilight.

As a result there is a lot of debate in the fandom as to what the four 'quadrants' actually involve, complicated of course by individual fans' shipping preferences, so any attempt at explaining them is probably going to cause controversy. There have also been various attempts to systematize the relationships, but I happen to disagree strongly with fanon on that, so we're not going to get into it here.

Troll relationships are usually put on a grid, which each relationship in a quadrant. The left column is the "concupiscent" or sexual relationships; the right column are the "conciliatory" or nonsexual romances. The top row are the "red" or postive relationships; the bottom row are the "black" or negative relationships. A troll's goal for fulfillment is to have someone to fill each of their four quadrants, presumably in a stable or semi-stable way. The relationships are (ideally) mutual - if A is B's matesprit, then B is A's - but each of the four relationships is not necessarily linked to the others. Gender is irrelevant. Trolls also believe that each person has a destined partner for each of the four quadrants, who they will eventually find, hopefully in time.

There is a lot more symbolism and terminology and argument around troll relationships and biology, but I am not going into it all here.

Matespritship is Lust and Liking. It's the closest to what we think of as human romance and love. But trolls don't expect matespritship to be the be-all and end-all of romance, and don't expect a matespirit to give them everything they need, so matespiritship is both simpler and more complicated. I imagine that without the pressure to be everything to each other, the illusions of love and perfection get to last a lot longer.

Kismesissitude is lust plus hate. It is what fandom likes to call "Foe Yay" or hatesex - nemeses holding on to a rivalry fuelled by unwilling respect and sexual tension. Humans - or at least fannish humans - tend to have a good understanding of these relationships, there are certainly enough people who ship them in fandom, but among humans, generally a "happy ending" for such a pairing is supposed to include not being enemies any more. Trolls, on the other hand, consider the foeyay relationship to be the goal - kismeses becoming matesprits happens but is far from ideal. (Matesprits becoming kismeses happens a lot too. Sometimes a relationship oscillates wildly between the two down the concupiscent side.)

Moirallegiance is positive feelings without lust. This is probably close to how fandom feels about "partners". The duty of a moirail is to keep their partner sane and at least semi-functional, or at least stop them from snapping and killing other people, or themself. The first fandom example I can come up with is Mulder and Scully, due to it having the relevant risk of snapping and death all 'round. Holmes and Watson are moirails too. So are House and Wilson. This quadrant can be read as romantic friendship/platonic partnership, only drop the fluffy illusion endorphins part and have them see right into each other's weak points and dark places from the beginning. In some ways it's the deepest of the troll relationships, but keeping it non-sexual is important.

Auspisticeship is the relationship that probably has the most confusion about it. It is romance with neither lust nor liking. I propose that its closest analogues are relationships that humans think of as familial, like parents or siblings: you are auspistice for someone you don't necessarily always like, and don't want to sleep with -- heck no, that would be a trainwreck - but somehow you care about their welfare anyway, and your life would have an empty place without them. An auspistice apparently spends most of their time making sure their partner's other relationships are functional and at least quasi-stable, and it's implied that their most important role is to keep kismeses from killing each other. You can probably think of a fandom with characters like that, and if they aren't seen as familial, they're probably exes.

In practice, working with a network of troll relationships gets complicated fast - the fewest trolls you can have in a closed system and still mutually fill all quadrants is six, but in practice, there are these tangled webs where even trolls get quickly lost figuring out who is what to who ... kind of like human relationships, only trolls have names for more of them.

It is, however, still awesome to work out troll relationship quadrants for people. For example: Harry's matesprit is Ginny, his kismesis is Draco, and during the books Ron and Hermione fluctuate between being his moirail and his Auspistice, but I think by the last book Ron is moirail and Hermione is auspistice. Meanwhile, Hermione is matesprit with Ron and mutual auspistice with Harry, but I am less sure about her other two quadrants - I suspect the first person she played blackrom games with was Rita though, and she could probably pull off moiraillegiance with Viktor. Ron is matesprit with Hermione and moirail with Harry, and I suspect his auspistice is Ginny (I have decided incest is irrelevant in the conciliatory quadrants), but he has had no luck at all finding a proper kismesis. Ginny is matesprits with Harry, auspistices with Ron, and kismeses with Tom; I suspect she has a moirail too, we just didn't see enough of her to know who it is (but it ought to be Neville!)

See, doesn't that make a lot more sense than the 'shipping arguments people usually have? :D

Also, because I hate all the terms currently in circulation in the asexual community for the not-sexual-not-exactly-romantic-but-necessary-to-life partnerships, I am considering trying to sneak "moirail" into the discourse...


So what are your favorite fictional systems of romance and marriage? What do I need to add to this list?
lovepeaceohana: A hand holding a rainbow'd heart. (rainbow heart)

[personal profile] lovepeaceohana 2011-04-10 04:47 am (UTC)(link)
...omg, this is AMAZING. thank you so much for putting it all together!!

/bookmarks like WHOA.
rymenhild: Manuscript page from British Library MS Harley 913 (Default)

[personal profile] rymenhild 2011-04-10 05:26 am (UTC)(link)
I've seen this post linked in several places, and enjoyed it greatly!

One problem that struck me in the Tale of the Five marriage system -- and I didn't notice this until my third or fourth reread -- is the issue of inheritance. When a monarch can have multiple partners, and the partners have other partners, and everyone has at least one child outside of marriage, who is the heir? Duane never explains how the heir is chosen, and the answer is actually crucial. Spoilers for Door into Sunset in ROT13: Pvyyzbq, jr yrnea va obbx 3, vf npghnyyl n fba bs gur cerivbhf xvat. Va n jbeyq jurer rirelbar vf erdhverq gb orne n puvyq *orsber* uvf be ure zneevntr, yrtvgvznpl vf zrnavatyrff. Fubhyqa'g Pvyyzbq or whfg nf inyvq na urve gb gur guebar nf Serrybea?

[personal profile] urania_calliope 2011-04-10 02:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Man, this is just a fascinating read! Thank you so much for putting all this together.

Makes me think Anita Blake might've finally found a marriage style that could work for her considering she's got relationships with going on 6 men at a time and triumverates pretty much are a three-person marriage.

Now I kinda 'ship Micah/Nathaniel/Anita/Edward or maybe Jean-Claude/Asher/Anita/Richard. I keep wanting to throw another girl in there but Anita is always commenting on how she's squicked by girls. If her squick weren't so canon I'd throw Claudia in there so fast.

All dreamy now.

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[personal profile] sophiap 2011-04-10 02:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I have recently fallen very much in love with Homestuck, and one of the things I adore about it is the idea of the romantic quadrants. It's been fun to apply the ideas to other fandoms where I don't quite like the idea of a romantic/sexual pairing, but still see an intensity there that I like to play with. Kismessitude and moirallegiance work well in the Sherlock fandom, IMO, and Supernatural has more than a few examples of auspiticeship.

Also, thank you so much for reminding me about sedoretu! I recall reading one of LeGuin's stories a long, long time ago and being intrigued by the concept.
d_generate_girl: New Who - the TARDIS (joan/roger see her smile)

[personal profile] d_generate_girl 2011-04-10 02:57 pm (UTC)(link)
This post is so brilliant, thank you so much for sharing all these new and interesting poly relationship possibilities with us! Like everyone else, I'm now attempting to figure out which of my fandoms fit into what:

Lie to Me is a sedoretu, with Gillian and Loker as Morning and Cal and Ria as their respective Evening people. Except I think they'd get in trouble because Cal and Loker wouldn't have a relationship and Cal would want to sleep with his fellow Evening woman.

Glee would be great fun with sedoretu AU's or group marriage in some form. I feel this would put an end to most shipwars, because clearly Finn/Quinn/Puck/Rachel are a sedoretu, with F/Q as the Morning and P/R as the Evening. And clearly what caused ALL the controversy is that they cheated with the member of the same moeity. I also would love to see someone do a Kurt/Blaine/Mercedes/Rachel one, because they fit excellently. Kurt and Mercedes as Morning, Blaine and Rachel as Evening, with their dirty secret being that if Kurt *has* to be sleeping with a girl, it would be his Morning woman and not the Evening woman, and Blaine would rather sleep with his Evening woman than the Morning woman.

I can't fit my wrestling boys into a sedoretu, considering you can't change moeity and Shawn would have had to, unless they had three Evenings and Hunter their only Morning. They fit excellently in a Troll Romance, though, from what I understand of it. Fandom of precisely one, so I won't go into lengthy, boring detail.

Mad Men seems to be Don Draper's search for a lovely Morning woman to complete a sedoretu with his Evening woman Joan and her Morning gentleman Roger. I'm rooting for Peggy, who would fit nicely.

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[personal profile] rymenhild 2011-04-10 05:05 pm (UTC)(link)
A marriage and family system I am presently enjoying reading about, from Sharon Lee and Steve Miller's Liaden series, is a clan system which relies primarily on short-term contract marriage. On the planet Liad, everyone is responsible for providing a heir to his or her line, for the benefit of his or her Clan. A line is a family of linear descendants. A Clan is one or more lines joined together as a larger family. So Clan Korval is made up of two major lines, yos'Phelium and yos'Galan, and a minor line.

Take Shan yos'Galan, Head of Line yos'Galan and eldest son of the previous Head of Line, for an example. When Shan comes of age, he must produce an heir; to do so, he enters into an arranged contract marriage with a young woman of another family. They marry for a limited length of time (about a year, I think), and, according to the terms of the contract, the child of the union goes to Line yos'Galan and Clan Korval. (Presumably, Shan could also, at a different time, enter into a contract marriage where the child of the marriage goes to his contract-wife's family. He doesn't, however.) Anyway, the contract marriage is in the backstory, and we never hear of it, except to know that Shan's heir is his daughter Padi. Later, Shan takes a lifemate (a permanent spouse, for love; soulbonding optional), and the children of that union would be coequal to Padi. Eventually one of these children would have to be chosen as the new yos'Galan Head of Line, but that's far into the future.

Thus, in Clan Korval, contract spouses are only temporary kin, and they aren't part of the important kin groups of Line and Clan. However, lifemates are incorporated permanently into their partners' families, and take up the rank of their spouses; Shan's lifemate Priscilla keeps her original surname Mendoza, but she also counts as yos'Galan Head of Line.

I'm trying to think of how to play with this in fandom. In a way, Lee and Miller are actually writing fannish comedies of manners, descending from and rewriting the narratives we see in Austen and Heyer, but I don't know of any fannish canons that would benefit from contract marriage and Clan establishment.
rymenhild: Manuscript page from British Library MS Harley 913 (Default)

[personal profile] rymenhild 2011-04-10 05:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually, I think it would be fun and simple to write asexuality into Liaden society. Most of the protagonists end up taking lifemates, and almost everyone we see takes pleasure-loves (lovers with no contract and no expectation of parenting). But an asexual Liaden (especially if his or her family is rich enough that (s)he doesn't have to marry out for money) could establish a contract marriage for the sake of producing his or her heir, produce the heir, and never have sex again.
brownbetty: (Default)

[personal profile] brownbetty 2011-04-10 06:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Re: Heinlein's line marriages, I always thought they seemed cosy, and liked the way you could marry someone for someone else in the marriage, when it was your turn.

OTOH, man, his sure were bizarrely hetero, eh?

Braid: I really wish that SF wiki had a diagram, because I think that is the only for me to get it.

BRB, gonna splash about in comments.
nenena: (Default)

[personal profile] nenena 2011-04-10 06:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Here via [personal profile] rydra_wong and just wanted to give some drive-by love to this post. ♥ I especially love your description of the group marriage - yes, YES, all of the subrelationships within the group have their own dynamics and this is what makes it awesome - and your description of the Homestuck troll quadrants. Thank you, by the way, for pointing out that Moirallegiance is supposed to remain nonsexual, as this is a fairly big plot point in the canon (i.e. as evidenced by a couple of trolls in particular frustrated about getting stuck "in the moiral zone" with sometroll they have flushed feelings for) but somewhat ignored by the fanon.

One thing I do have to disagree with is the description of Auspisticeship, which - as sqbr pointed out - it not a relationship between two trolls, but rather a relationship between a troll and two other people in a specific relationship. I.E. in the comic it's very clearly described that a troll auspices a particular relationship, not necessarily all of the relationships for another troll. Which is why Eridan said that Kanaya should be "our" auspice (referring to himself and Vriska) instead of saying that she should auspice him or auspice Vriska. The other notable thing about Auspisticeship is that it seems to be the only quadrant where poly is acceptable - since we see the trolls mention more than once that somebody can be an auspice to more than one relationship.
brownbetty: (Default)

[personal profile] brownbetty 2011-04-10 07:41 pm (UTC)(link)
There is also, (and believe you me, I am not putting him forward as any kind of queer theorist or gender activist) Piers Anthony's arrangement in If I Pay Thee Not in Gold which is basically a V-arrangement, with extra taboo of it ever becoming a triangle. But it's more or less for Anthony's exploration of slightly vanilla kink, and contains 0% social ramifications thought.
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[personal profile] rydra_wong 2011-04-10 08:03 pm (UTC)(link)
*demands details, mostly to ensure that I never have to read it*

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[personal profile] dine 2011-04-10 08:41 pm (UTC)(link)
possibly my fave group marriage novel is the little-known White Wing by Gordon Kendall - it's space opera, where mixed gender groups of seven are married. really interesting world-building and exploration of how a group could work, though possibly due to its age (publ. mid80s) the author includes restrained m/f sexual interactions, but shies away from portraying any overt same-sex interactions (though there's def. subtext).

'Gordon Kendall' was actually Susan Schwartz and Sheriann Lewitt (both published independently) working together, and I only regret they didn't write more in this universe. it's well worth tracking down used - I own multiple copies, as it's a work I always want to be able to reread
ashen_key: (key in my hands)

[personal profile] ashen_key 2011-04-10 10:13 pm (UTC)(link)
*SHINY EYES*

So, hi, wandered this way from metafandom. And I might be trying to a) flesh out a canon world (THERE ARE ALIENS - and I refuse to believe that they are aaaaaaaaaaaall monogamous, I don't care what the extended universe says, and you can still have important relationships without the mind-melding, brain-combining, thank you, James Cameron -_-) and b) develop an original world that has plural marriage built in (in...various forms, some with children some without), so this is all...glee inducing.

And also just for a world-building junkie, this is all...I need to read all these things. I do, I do, I doooooooooooooo.
lovefromgirl: (Default)

[personal profile] lovefromgirl 2011-04-10 10:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Group marriage is the obvious solution to shipping wars in about 90% of fandoms.

QFT. This is why I love White Collar fandom: because it seems to have acknowledged this and chosen to work with it. I've also seen variations on the "pundit round table" theme in which the pundits are all one big happy family.

Nothin' to add, really. Just. Love this post.
sothcweden: birds flying high at sunset/dawn (Default)

[personal profile] sothcweden 2011-04-10 11:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I love this, and I can't wait to read some of the works you referenced.

It's not a different set-up, but I thought I'd mention my own introduction to the idea of group-marriage in fic. At age 12 I read: Stardance by Spider and Jeanne Robinson, and later its two sequels, Starseed and Starmind, which came out in the nineties. I think that my fondness for poly fic comes from reading this trilogy at a sufficiently impressionable age that I always considered multiple partners a viable option for characters rather than something odd.
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[personal profile] tenshinochouwa 2011-04-10 11:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Linked here by [personal profile] sofiaviolet, and I love this. I am firmly of the opinion that the best way to solve ship wars is to throw everyone together as well (I did always love Triofic best in HP).

Also, I have another example for you, although it is very simplistic. In Robert Sawyer's Neanderthal Parallax trilogy, the barasts (Neanderthals from a parallel universe) are very sex segregated, and each person has a mate of each gender. You spend most of your life with your same-sex mate, forming a family unit and then once a month you spend a day hanging out (and generally having sex) with your opposite-sex mate. In its normal form it does not solve many ship wars, since in our universe the sexes aren't separated, but if you just modify it a little it's a good way to get around a canon opposite sex partner in a slash fic: just divide up the time spent with each one, so they're with [spouse/partner/etc.] when they're [at home/on planet/etc.], and they're with [slash interest] when they're [on the road/on the job/on the spaceship/whatever]. Works really really well for fandoms where both of the slash interests have canonical opposite sex partners, since that's the way it's supposed to work. It's also a nice example of "everyone's bisexual!"
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[personal profile] apatheia_jane 2011-04-11 12:59 am (UTC)(link)
This is awesome, thanks so much! Will be adding stuff to reading list when I'm done essay writing. I have nothing SF to add, for I am woefully underread. But what's your interest level on non-fantasy representations of culturally-appropriate poly/omnigamy?

I'm currently reading Sex at Dawn: the prehistoric origins of modern sexuality. Cannot recommend it enough. Basically, monogamy is a lie made necessary by agriculture. Or at least, the concept that humans are "naturally" monogamous is a lie. Goes through a hell of a lot of evidence, incredibly well written (humorous, easy to understand, scientifically sound and very thorough) & the references will keep me busy forever. Basically, pre-agricultural societies /immediate return hunter-gatherer societies are usually/'naturally' made up of small collaborative groups (the primal horde! best name for omnigamy/group marriage ever) with fierce egalitarianism, male parental investment is in the younger generation generally, partly because females commonly would have had multiple male partners while fertile so parentage is unknown. Basically, we are very similar to our equal-closest relatives, bonobos, and there is a hell of a lot of human characteristics that would only have evolved in a poly/hypersexual context. However, in societies that have private property, male ownership & the need for unambiguous inheritence, then it becomes really important to force female fidelity and control female sexuality, and we get polygyny (harems) and monogamy instead of female dominated collaborative & promiscuous societies (I can't help feeling bummed at not having that. Food whenever I want it is nice, & the internet would never have developed without a food surplus, but there is nothing about finding out our ancestors were probably omnigamous with much lower rates of depression that doesn't feel like we've gone backwards as a species).

One of the things I really like about this book (as well as it being incredibly well researched & pro-poly) is that it never forgets that diversity a) should not be marginalised and b) makes perfect sense in a context of natural selection. The standard narrative of sexual economics, evolutionary psychology and sociobiology can be a bit... angrymaking, with its gender essentialism and insistence that there is no useful role for homosexuality / childless people. Sex at dawn makes an argument for the likelihood of females having multiple sex partners in a row (guys typically come quickly to get out of the way for the next guy, who is ready and waiting because he is aroused by watching/hearing/smelling other people have sex, and she is capable of selecting the strongest sperm out of the many samples), while emphasising the role of collaboration and sex to reinforce social cohesion, so ace/queer people are not described as some useless evolutionary mistake that keeps happening for some reason that scientists can't figure out. So, it describes 'natural' human society as hypersexual, while not at any point giving the impression that if an individual doesn't enjoy gangbangs, there's something wrong with them.

As an ecologist (well, getting there) who is kinda ace & queer and firmly poly, this book is currently my happy place. Also, where's my primal horde? WANT. It fits in perfectly with how I feel about people close to me - I want a bunch of people to live near me, share food & conversation & support, & not be possessive/proprietary over other people's relationships. IS THAT SO HARD?
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[personal profile] ciaan 2011-04-11 04:23 am (UTC)(link)
...I haven't read that book, but unfortunately I can't read the phrase "the primal horde" without thinking of Freud's stupid stupid stupid ideas of the origin of religion, and how the primal horde of brothers killed their father so they could mate with their mothers and feel guilty about it. :/

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[personal profile] philomytha 2011-04-11 07:47 am (UTC)(link)
This is so cool. Also, since I am entirely monofannish, I have constructed a Vorkosigan sedoretu for my favourite characters, with Cordelia and Illyan as morning woman and man, and Alys and Aral as evening woman and man. It all works out very nicely in my head, at least ;-).

Also, I bet they practise all these things on Beta Colony, though possibly with variants to account for the Betans' own rules about having children.
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[personal profile] slybrarian 2011-04-11 03:12 pm (UTC)(link)
That does seem to work out pretty well, at least after Padma's death. (Aral/Cordelia/Padma/Alys originally? Which means Ivan might be Mile's brother instead of cousin.) It seems to work pretty well with some of the other characters too, because suddenly I'm thinking things like 'Ezar and Piotr were in a sedoretu' and 'oh god Kareen was married to both Serg and Ges'. Can you imagine the trouble involved with Miles trying to form a sedoretu, though? Just thinking about it makes my head hurt. For that matter, so do Barrayaran succession issues - hey, kids, let's see how many more times we can make the Vorbarra, Vorkosigan, and Vorutyer family trees overlap!

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[identity profile] heron61.livejournal.com 2011-04-11 08:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Here via a comment in [personal profile] eleanorjane's lj-

The first SF mention of a group marriage I know of was Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover novels, specifically The Forbidden Tower, which was published two years before The Door Into Fire.

Also, while it's mostly off-screen, a depiction of a line-marriage that's considerably less creepy than any in Heinlein can be found in Joan Vinge's novel The Outcasts of Heaven Belt

[personal profile] urania_calliope 2011-04-12 08:38 am (UTC)(link)
There needs to be a comm on DW or LJ that deals with fic of this 'genre'. Is there such a place?
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[personal profile] kendiefox 2011-04-12 03:41 pm (UTC)(link)
here from [community profile] metafandom

I'm really not shocked no one has mentioned it as it's a little-known series, but the Compass Rose series by Gail Dayton sets up a poly familial unit as the basis for society. All monies and properties into the ilian become owned by all members equally, all children are the children of all parents, etc. The last book has issues with a great many things, but the series as a while is still worth looking into.

The family unit, "ilian," is based around a minimum of four and a maximum of twelve consenting adults. Twelve is very rare, and four to seven is average, and there is no 'norm' for how folks behave in the bedroom.
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[personal profile] elspethdixon 2011-04-12 07:19 pm (UTC)(link)
The Compass Rose books! Someone else had read them! I love the idea of an ilian and the way the society was structured around it, and liked all the main characters from the first book (the second book added a few too many people to the central ilian until there were too many to properly keep track of, just like the later Merry Gentry books), but the main ilian in the series as written was almost relentlessly hetero.

In theory, f/f and m/m occur in ilians all the time, but in practice, the heroine's only seemed to involve her sleeping with the guys and the guys sleeping with her and the other women, no f/f at all, and one blessed occasion when one guy was almost attracted to another one for, like, two pages and I was all excited and then it went back to hethethet all the time.

They're actually good books and I rec them highly, but poly relationships that involve multiple characters of both genders and thus taunt me with potential queerness but never deliver always make me teeth-gnash.

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unlettyrde: A woman in a velvet dress, holding a hooked hand (Queen of Attolia)

[personal profile] unlettyrde 2011-04-13 12:37 am (UTC)(link)
Ooh, these are fascinating, and I haven't read most of the works referenced--thanks so much for compiling the list!
ext_286023: (washu)

[identity profile] renabunny42.livejournal.com 2011-04-14 12:41 pm (UTC)(link)
This was very interesting, gave me an excuse to reread An Ever-Fixed Mark and was educational in other parts. Most fascinated by the troll romance, I really do have to finish Homestruck soon. Barely started it a while back but then got distracted.

Also was confused by the braid, but the diagram kinda helps?

This also makes me think I really should do Kingdom Hearts fic, with Birth by Sleep the group I'm thinking of has anywhere from eight to ten people in it. Or more thanks to Axel. Hmmm. Much sorting needs to be done, and maybe trying a second fic based of troll romance. That might work the best though yeah, working out the group depends on working out what I mean by grouping. Also might steal your idea for drabble about each of the dynamics, but that......Starting small. Starting small is a good idea. I think next study break I start doing a diagram.

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[personal profile] curuchamion 2011-04-19 05:41 am (UTC)(link)
'you are auspistice for someone you don't necessarily always like, and don't want to sleep with -- heck no, that would be a trainwreck - but somehow you care about their welfare anyway, and your life would have an empty place without them.'

At which point my brain (which has been overdosing on "Deep Space Nine" for a couple months now - I'm just finishing up the third season) goes ODO/QUARK OMG I JUST FOUND THE WORD FOR IT. :DDDD

(And then I started scuffling with Odo's other canon relationships and came up with an entire troll quadrant thing. Sort of. I suspect I don't really understand most of the troll stuff at all, but it does what I'm wanting it to do with this, so... *shrugs*)

(It probably says a lot about me that "So Lwaxana is totally Odo's moirail, but she wants to be matesprit except Kira is his matesprit" makes WAY more sense to me than anything anyone actually said in canon about that triangle!)

*happy dance for HAVING WORDS ABOUT THINGS, yes*
xenakis: (happytoph)

[personal profile] xenakis 2011-04-23 01:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I found a wonderful Sherlock Holmes sedoretu story here! :D

God, there really needs to be more of them!

[personal profile] mara 2011-04-25 05:45 pm (UTC)(link)
It is totally your fault that I just spent 15 minutes tracking down the Diane Duane books on half.com :D Fortunately, they were available for less than a bazillion dollars. (Darn it, I wanted to buy them for the Kindle so that Diane would get some royalties, but they're not available. Grumble.)

However, thank you for this interesting post and I look forward to reading the books, so thank you :D
greatwhite: (pic#816927)

[personal profile] greatwhite 2011-04-26 09:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Hi.

I'm kindof in the middle of devouring them, which is saying something because I have not actually enjoyed sword-and-sorcery fantasy in years.

(Anonymous) 2011-09-04 03:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I love this article!! I found it while searchin up troll romance stuff, which my brain currently won't stop trying to apply to EVERY FANDOM EVER. Now I'm doing that with sedoretu, too!!

I have some questions about sedoretu. First, what are the actual differences between Morning people and Evening people? Are the differences purely aesthetic or do they perhaps have an effect on how the person reproduces, similar to gender? Or is it more to do with the inner nature of the person? How do I decide if character A's moiety is morning or evening in my hypothetical sedoretu-themed AU for fandom X?

Secondly, have there ever been morning/morning or evening/evening pairs in the canon? I know it's massively taboo, incest more or less, but it's not like that never happens in the real world. P: Do you know what would happen if two people of the same moiety had a child together? Might the offspring be stunted in some way as is possible in the real world as the result of, say, a father/daughter coupling?

I guess I should actually read this stuff, huh! And I just might, because it sounds fascinating :3
wintercealde: princess gazing at the stars (Default)

[personal profile] wintercealde 2011-11-26 02:05 am (UTC)(link)
If I remember correctly, in the stories there's no physical or biological difference between the moieties. It's conceptual, a social category only. So I think you can pick whatever moiety you like for your characters : )

And in at least one of the stories (I don't remember which), there's an offhand remark that the old taboos aren't necessarily kept in the (mor progressive) cities, but they are still strongly held in the countryside. So m/m or e/e couples don't feature in canon, but it's clear that they happen.

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