melannen | i wish I could say I loved it unreservedly, but.

Is it just that once you start thinking like a feminist you can't stop? Or would I have noticed this before?

..see, I was all set to go on about how awesome the Will& Elizabeth thing was, how they really set it up to take it from where it started in the first movie to a true and awesome relationship between equals, how that was the BEST WEDDING SCENE EVER and Elizabeth is the Pirate King - not even queen, mind you, King, and how she totally kicked Sao Feng across the room and then had him begging for forgiveness, and she & Jack are so perfectly the same in their pirateyness as to be perfectly interchangeable --

(and she did end up in a slavegirl outfit on Jabba's Sail Barge - yay ! - but the slave outfit was sexy and shiny without being the least bit revealing or demeaning)

--- and then Will sailed off and left her waiting for him on the shore, like every other sailor's wife in the history of time, barefoot and frigging PREGNANT.

WHAT. THE. HECK.

It's not like they didn't totally emphasize and fetishize the barefoot part, either, what with "Please give me my boot back so I can sex you up and then walk away."

GRAAARGHHH.

Dear world: Even Sen. Van Dalsem eventually realized that women were, actually, people, and not just motivation for men. Please get with the program. Thank you.

FREAKING BAREFOOT AND PREGNANT.

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FREAKING BAREFOOT AND PREGNANT.

*nods furiously*

(hi, I don't actually know you, but I'm kind of...hunting for people who are similarly outraged? Because I honestly can't believe that the took 2.99 movie's worth of a fabulously feminist character and trashed her within a one minute scene)

Is that metaphorically pregnant? Because I missed that if not!

Yeah, not ideal, but they were going for the whole Calypso parallel and I was so stunned they actually didn't make it a disgustingly happy ending that I'm inclined to forgive. I mean, it's not exactly a practical ending, she's on some rock in the middle of nowhere! As if you'd do that. But yes, I had similar thoughts while in the cinema about the slight demotion. Bah.

It's the bit after the credits, which implies very strongly that she's spent the whole past ten years on land being a good mommmy to Will's son.

Honestly I don't think I'd have been nearly as upset if not for that 'ten years later' tag - they've just spent the whole movie repeatedly doing the impossible, but apparently the only actually impossible thing is for them to alter the terms of Will's bargain? Even with ten years to kill? Yeah, I don't buy it. So it totally read to me as "Elizabeth has to stay at home like a good little wifey *because the writers say so*."

YES THANK YOU. Arrrgggh.

It wasn't even the pregnant thing so much as the standing on shore waiting part. Because Elizabeth does not *do* that.

Oh dear. I didn't wait to see the bit after the credits and I'm kind of relieved about that right now. Ugh. Completely with you on that.

See, here's my deal with Elizabeth, if you'll indulge me.

In the first movie, Elizabeth seemed like nothing more than a patronizing girl-power 'look at me I'm so progressively feminist' character. Everything from 'I learned martial arts and mastering sword play from reading books' to "Try wearing a corset". I really didn't like her because I didn't find her believable. Not to say women can't be bad-ass, but when believability and actual character development is sacrificed just to make someone bad-ass, I can't get behind it....male or female.

However, she really grew on me in 'Dead Man's Chest' and I thought she was freaking awesome in 'At World's End' because she seemed like an actual character to me then. But when she was giving her monologue on the Black Pearl the writer in me kept thinking to myself "Man, this would be 10 times cooler if she actually grew into this role over the course of the 3 movies." I mean, this governor's daughter who at first could barely handle a sword and only knew of the sea from books grows into this woman who is tough, a master of the sword, and the FUCKING KING OF THE PIRATES! But no, the first movie creeped back into my head and I kept thinking "Oh right, girl power". I concede that these movies aren't exactly known for characters that actually grow and change, but still...it would have been nice. ~_~

And yes, the last bit was irksome for me as well because it only reminded me of what Elizabeth was from the beginning...just a half-hearted excuse for a girl to swing around a sword. And like all such characters it's only a matter of time until they're barefoot and pregnant....or dead. 9_9

Oh, and Sunday may not work for me after all. I have a dinner date at 6 that evening. Wanna try to sneak out there next weekend or perhaps Sunday night through Memorial Day (at which case, I could drive)?

Or how 'bout I just give you a call like a normal, functional human being? X_x

I haven't seen the third movie (and can't, until it hits DVD), but I never liked Elizabeth. Couldn't quite put my finger on why, though-- I knew it was more than just the strong scent of Sue in the morning-- and you've just nailed it for me. The corset line annoyed the heck out of me, right out of the Ohpleez school of historical retconning.

I think I let Elizabeth get away with a lot because her character is no more stereotypical or sue-ish than anyone else in the movies - in fact, in some ways she's less so - but yeah, the corset line in particular annoyed the heck out of me, too, even though I loved what they did with them early in the movie.

Well, she didn't spend all that time waiting, clearly. Where would she have got clothes for her crotchfruit?

My theory is that she went back to Singapore and kicked ass as Pirate Lord for nine years or so, then came back to the island with her kid so he could meet his daddy! I WILL NOT BUDGE ON THIS POINT. SHE IS STILL THE PIRATE KING, OKAY.

The barefoot thing, though. Yeah. It really does sound silly but it would have been a lot better if she'd just been wearing SHOES.

I have decided that it's not necessarily actually Will's kid.

I haven't decided whose it is yet, but then maybe Elizabeth doesn't know either. >:P

You know, I'd love that interpretation, except she just looked so serene and self-satisfied when she saw the flash of green. She's sure that it's Will's child.

AGREED, OMG WTF.

I'm left wishing that I had stopped at the first movie. The second and third really pissed me off. I think what really gets me is that I felt Will really could have been released from his fate. I did not expect any unhappiness until that last minute! And I will be spending the rest of the evening trying to forget that whole movie so I can enjoy the first one without being sad. :( BOO!!! Next time I'll be in charge of making sure there's a good ending.

i wish I could say I loved it unreservedly, but.

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