melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)
melannen ([personal profile] melannen) wrote2017-03-07 10:24 pm
Entry tags:

FMK #3: I heard there was some real kinky stuff in these, y'all*

Okay! Now that I have gone through all the paperbacks and have a better idea of what I actually have, this should be a fun one. :D

Results from last week's FMK.

How FMK works: I am trying to clear out my unread books piles. So there is a poll, in which you get to pick F, M, or K. F means I should spend a night of wild passion with the book ASAP, and then decide. M means I should continue to commit to a long-term relationship of sharing my bedroom with it. K means it should go away, immediately and with prejudice. Anyone can vote, you don't have to actually know anything about the books.

I am going to start officially closing the poll and picking winners on Friday nights because I don't always have time on Sunday to read a whole novel. (although not actually closing it probably, people can still vote.)

Link to long version of explanation (on previous poll)


Poll #18074 FMK #3: I heard there was some real kinky stuff in these, y'all*
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 49


Clan of the Cave Bear by Jean Auel (1980)

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F
16 (40.0%)

M
7 (17.5%)

K
17 (42.5%)

Kushiel's Dart by Jacqcueline Carey (2001)

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F
32 (74.4%)

M
6 (14.0%)

K
5 (11.6%)

The Wraiths of Will and Pleasure by Storm Constantine (2003)

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F
14 (60.9%)

M
5 (21.7%)

K
4 (17.4%)

Touched by Venom by Janine Cross (2005)

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F
11 (50.0%)

M
4 (18.2%)

K
7 (31.8%)

Outlander by Diana Gabaldon (1991)

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F
16 (42.1%)

M
6 (15.8%)

K
16 (42.1%)

Guilty Pleasures by Laurel K. Hamilton (1993)

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F
12 (41.4%)

M
2 (6.9%)

K
15 (51.7%)

House of Zeor by Jacqueline Lichtenberg (1974)

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F
15 (71.4%)

M
4 (19.0%)

K
2 (9.5%)

High Couch of Silistra by Janet Morris (1977)

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F
15 (71.4%)

M
4 (19.0%)

K
2 (9.5%)

Tarnsman of Gor by John Norman (1966)

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F
6 (17.6%)

M
1 (2.9%)

K
27 (79.4%)

The Healing of Crossroads by Nick O'Donohoe (1990)

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F
11 (50.0%)

M
2 (9.1%)

K
9 (40.9%)

Kildar by John Ringo (2006)

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F
7 (29.2%)

M
1 (4.2%)

K
16 (66.7%)



*I may have heard wrong
gehayi: (remusthings (copperbadge))

Re: Checking the Source

[personal profile] gehayi 2017-03-09 02:26 am (UTC)(link)
As for them being a dying race - they did die out. Though there is evidence that they interbred with archaic humans, they were subsumed by them.

They did. I'm just not comfortable with the dark-haired, dark-eyed, dark-skinned people being the dying race and the white blue-eyed blonde being the replacement. I know that the representation of Neanderthals pretty much matches what people thought back then, but the perception of Neanderthals as dark and Cro-Magnons as blond might have been, at least in part, rooted in subconscious racism. (it's not as if anthropology and racism haven't collided in the past.)

There's also the fact that Auel was actively trying to write about various isms. From the Washington Post, February 21, 1986:

By setting her novel far in the past, she said, "I can write about problems like racism, sexism, prejudice in such a way that people can deal with them as abstract concepts. They can have enough distance from their own lives that maybe they can think about them without the emotional hang-ups of the present day. Let's hold out something like the Neanderthals as a way of asking, 'Why can't we look at people as individuals, with individual human capacities and dignity, instead of seeing them only through group fear or prejudice?'"

That makes me suspect that, in line with her theme, she was trying to evoke and then subvert racist tropes, but didn't do very well at the latter. Because it does sound as if her intentions were good.
elanya: Pensive pony (Default)

Re: Checking the Source

[personal profile] elanya 2017-03-09 03:11 am (UTC)(link)
I don't know if she was consciously trying to evoke real world racism and tropes, so much as to create a context where the concept of 'racial' prejudice existed - the quote to me suggests that was exactly what she was trying not to do. She wanted to make it more abstract, not root it in something concrete. I'm not arguing that she was successful in creating that distance, and I agree that the assumptions of the time regarding the appearance of archaic humans (stereotypical northern European) and neanderthals (overall darker) were pretty problematic, and that affects the book for sure. But I don't think she should be taken to task for the general description of neanderthal body types as stocky, sloping brows, etc.

There's a catch 22, as racist depictions of PoC often explicitly attribute them neanderthal-like traits. But it's not the neanderthals' fault for actually looking that way!
gehayi: (certainwords (ladytalon))

Re: Checking the Source

[personal profile] gehayi 2017-03-09 03:50 am (UTC)(link)
But I don't think she should be taken to task for the general description of neanderthal body types as stocky, sloping brows, etc.

No, describing them as being stocky or having sloping brows is okay. I don't think that she had to describe them in terms of muzzles and pelts, but again, I don't think she was being malicious. I just think that this was an unfortunate choice.
elanya: Pensive pony (Default)

Re: Checking the Source

[personal profile] elanya 2017-03-09 04:06 am (UTC)(link)

enh.... I know some white dudes I would happily describe as being covered in hair that's practically, but not quite, a pelt. And I don't think that 'jutting jaw' or jaw 'that protruded somewhat, like a muzzle' is out of line for physical description of neanderthal skull structure, either.

gehayi: (donna looking up (knifecontrol))

Re: Checking the Source

[personal profile] gehayi 2017-03-09 04:18 am (UTC)(link)
We'll have to agree to disagree, then.